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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Advice on paint for a Badger Sotar
tray
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: September 13, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, April 21, 2013 - 05:21 AM UTC
Hi!

I bought a Badger Sotar 20/20 airbrush last week and I was shocked to find out that my expensive new AB would not work with my Vallejo paints that I loved so much for brushwork. I was able to paint wide areas in this combination, but this is something I could do with my old airbrush too. I bought the Badger to paint camo lines in 1/72.

This AB has a very fine needle, and the Vallejo paint clogged the nozzle in a second. I needed to thin the paint to a ridiculous level to prevent clogging. I used water and Vallejo AB Cleaner to thin the paint. The painting came off evenly and I had good control and no clogging, but only when I was painting on a piece of paper. When I hit a plastic card that had a coat of paint using the same mix and pressure then the paint was flooding. I tried for hours but no luck.

I also tried some old Model Master enamels, and they worked just great! No clogging, consistent thin lines, and very good control. However, I have around 100 bottles of Vallejo and about 10 bottles of MM.

My questions follow. Please note that the Sotar has a very fine needle (0.2 mm) so I hope for answers from users of similar airbrushes. I have no problem airbrushing Vallejo with my larger AB that has a 0.5 mm needle.

Q1: Is there any hope to use Vallejo Model Color paints with this AB to paint very fine lines with a good control? Pressure, thinning, technique, or magic formula?

Q2: What kind of paint is best for this kind of an airbrush? Here I guess most of the enamels are very similar for this purpose and I should avoid acrylics.

Q3: I found out that if I convert the AB to single action by preventing the needle to fully close the paint flow (it's easy to set up the AB this way), then there was much less clogging. Do you have similar experiences on this?
Karl187
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Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, April 21, 2013 - 10:47 PM UTC
Hi Peter- I hope I can offer a bit of help to you here as I use a Badger Renegade Krome with a .21mm needle. First off- I assume it is Vallejo Model Air paints you are using for the airbrush?

If it is then you could perhaps try and introduce a drop of Vallejo Glaze Medium to the mix- this will thin the paint down a little more. You could also try a flow enhancer such as Liquitex.

Unfortunately I find Vallejo Model Air paints very inconsistent when used with a very small gauge needle airbrush and I tend not to use them if I need to paint very small lines or very tight and neat camo patterns. I can honestly say I find Tamiya to be the best bet for use with my Renegade Krome. The Tamiya paints can be very heavily thinned (with their own brand of thinner) and still produce extremely fine lines. I tend to use a much thinner mix of Tamiya paint with my Renegade Krome than I would use for any other airbrush.

In terms of clogging the very fine needles can be quite susceptible to this and there is no real easy way around it. When I'm spraying I sometimes point the AB away from the model surface and give it a quick full power blast which will sometimes dis-lodge any clog or paint build up from the needle. Failing that a cotton bud soaked in thinner is very gently touched to the needle and after that a good blast of spray and that usually does the job.

I hope this helps you out a bit Peter .
FAUST
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: June 07, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, April 21, 2013 - 10:59 PM UTC
Ola Peter

I have the Sotar 20/20 as well and it is an awesome airbrush.
No onto the bad news. If you are planning to airbrush you Vallejo Model color that you brush with you can forget it. I have pretty much tried every thinning ratio with any thinning medium up to and including whiskey and my own tears And the only thing it does is clog, Spatter, and leaving a surface as though it was painted with gravel.

Even the model air from Vallejo is not really that sprayable and needs to be thinned. Which (at least to me) gives very mixed results. And a very fragile paintcoat.

Best paint I have so far airbrushed with is Tamiya Acrylics. Thinned with their own thinner to a ratio of 50/50 or even more depending on your compressor and pressure regulators. With a few drops of X22 Clear and I can guarantee you that certainly with the Sotar you will not encounter any problems at all. And the paintcoat will be near indestructible. And you can spray lines fine enough to write your signature on cheques
tray
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: September 13, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 08:01 AM UTC
Thank you Karl and Robert for your answers.

Looks like I won't spray much Vallejo with my Sotar.

I found a few bottles of Tamiya acrylics that I was using before I converted to Vallejo. They were sitting in a box for about 4 years but still good. The painting consistency was good with minimal clogging. There was some splatter though even at high air pressure, maybe due to the old age of the paint. I will try again with a different bottle and maybe more thinner soon.

I think I had the best results so far with my Model Master enamels. Tamiya was only slightly worse. I will buy the camo colors from these brands and keep my Vallejo paints for large areas and filtering.

Peter
CMOT
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 08:16 AM UTC
I believe that this airbrush was designed with the intention of spraying inks and that could be why you are encountering so many issues. I know that Robert had some success with paints but you will need to get your paint to a consistancy of ink rather than milk which is the usual aim.
retiredyank
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 08:51 AM UTC
I had the same problem spraying enamels and Tamiya acryls. However, since I cleaned it, no problems. And, watch out! Those tips are EXPENSIVE.
FAUST
#130
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 09:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I believe that this airbrush was designed with the intention of spraying inks and that could be why you are encountering so many issues.



Yes what Darren mentions is true and it is a piece of info missing from my reply earlier in the day... With the Sotar you really have to make sure your paint is very thin... Once you sorted that out the Sotar is your best friend. Make sure the paint is shaken thoroughly before you put it in the AB and most important of all... Clean your AB well everytime you use it.
tray
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: September 13, 2005
KitMaker: 193 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 09:52 AM UTC
Hi again,

Yes I know how important it is to keep the Airbrush clean, I have learned that years ago. I'm using nail polish remover (containing acetone and denatured alcohol) after every session. It's cheap and so far dissolved all kinds of paint I had in a second.

In fact, I have succeeded to keep myself from trying out my new AB in the minute it arrived. The first thing I did was that I disassembled it to make it sure that I would be able to clean it when I finish my first painting session. I wonder how many modelers made similar precautions.

Question: It is very difficult to prevent paint flooding when I am using too much thinner. I have to move to airbrush fast, which makes it hard to paint precise patterns. If I am too slow then the paint starts moving on the surface and makes undesired effects. What is your trick against this?
FAUST
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 10:00 AM UTC
Ola Peter

I own several airbrushes and every time I got a new one the very first thing I did was disassembling it simply to see what was in it and what I had to do to clean it good. That way you never have any surprises with an airbrush full of paint.

I don't know what kind of compressor you have I have a Revell Omega on which I can regulate the pressure. The thinner the paint the lower PSI I spray. Works a treat.
CMOT
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 10:06 AM UTC
I agree with Robert in that paint that has been thinned more than usual requires a lower air pressure to avoid flooding the area of the model you are spraying.
tray
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: September 13, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 10:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't know what kind of compressor you have I have a Revell Omega on which I can regulate the pressure. The thinner the paint the lower PSI I spray. Works a treat.



My compressor, let's see. Its engine is salvaged from a freezer, the tank used to be a fire extinguisher in its better days. There's a wooden frame around it and it all was sprayed with a black paint. It looks like a massive piece of industrial junk but it is silent and has everything: automatic engine control to keep the pressure in the tank between 2.5 and 5.5 bar, a pressure meter, an air filter, an oil/moisture trap, an air pressure regulator, and a safety valve. It was about the third of the price of similar equipments with a brand.

So, lower air pressure? I know it prevents flooding by reducing the amount of paint that exits the airbrush but it also prevents the proper atomization of paint (I think that is the correct terminology for splatter). I usually set the air pressure until I can avoid the poor atomization effect but it still causes flooding if the mix is too thin. It is very difficult for me to find the balance in air pressure and thinning ratio.
retiredyank
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 10:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I don't know what kind of compressor you have I have a Revell Omega on which I can regulate the pressure. The thinner the paint the lower PSI I spray. Works a treat.



My compressor, let's see. Its engine is salvaged from a freezer, the tank used to be a fire extinguisher in its better days. There's a wooden frame around it and it all was sprayed with a black paint. It looks like a massive piece of industrial junk but it is silent and has everything: automatic engine control to keep the pressure in the tank between 2.5 and 5.5 bar, a pressure meter, an air filter, an oil/moisture trap, an air pressure regulator, and a safety valve. It was about the third of the price of similar equipments with a brand.

So, lower air pressure? I know it prevents flooding by reducing the amount of paint that exits the airbrush but it also prevents the proper atomization of paint (I think that is the correct terminology for splatter). I usually set the air pressure until I can avoid the poor atomization effect but it still causes flooding if the mix is too thin. It is very difficult for me to find the balance in air pressure and thinning ratio.


I thin my paint at about 3:5 (paint:thinner). This is with Testors/MM enamels. For Tamiya acryls, I do about 1:1. You will just have to experiment with it.
tray
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: September 13, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 11:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I thin my paint at about 3:5 (paint:thinner). This is with Testors/MM enamels. For Tamiya acryls, I do about 1:1. You will just have to experiment with it.



Hello Matt, thank you for these numbers. This is useful information since I only used Vallejo for spraying recently. My top priority for this week is to find best the combination of paint, thinning ratio, and air pressure for my new airbrush.
FAUST
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 11:08 AM UTC
@ Peter
Work with whatever works best for you. My first compressor was also one that was cobbled together from various sources. After that I have sprayed for years with one of those cheap testors membrane compressors. The Omega I got really cheap 1.5 years ago and it was never used. Hell I know a guy who used a car tire as powerhouse for his AB.

The rule is mostly that the thinner your paint the less pressure is needed to atomize it correctly without splatter. I know that with the sotar (and to lesser extent my Revelll Flex Masterclass) with very thin paint I use a Bar pressure way below the 2 bar. Somewhere between 1 and 1.5 Bar. Depending on the paintmix. Also the thinner your paint the less easy it covers so you need to do some extra passes to cover you primer fully.

Easiest practice.... Whip out a white sheet of A4 paper and sit down at the bench fir an afternoon with some good music in the background. And start testing thinning ratios and pressures by spraying lines and dots and try to get your results consistent. Also gives you a good idea of the handling of the airbrush. Which for theSotar I can vouch for. It is one of the best Airbrushes Ive had in my hands.
tray
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: September 13, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 11:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

@ Peter
Work with whatever works best for you. My first compressor was also one that was cobbled together from various sources. After that I have sprayed for years with one of those cheap testors membrane compressors. The Omega I got really cheap 1.5 years ago and it was never used. Hell I know a guy who used a car tire as powerhouse for his AB.

The rule is mostly that the thinner your paint the less pressure is needed to atomize it correctly without splatter. I know that with the sotar (and to lesser extent my Revelll Flex Masterclass) with very thin paint I use a Bar pressure way below the 2 bar. Somewhere between 1 and 1.5 Bar. Depending on the paintmix. Also the thinner your paint the less easy it covers so you need to do some extra passes to cover you primer fully.

Easiest practice.... Whip out a white sheet of A4 paper and sit down at the bench fir an afternoon with some good music in the background. And start testing thinning ratios and pressures by spraying lines and dots and try to get your results consistent. Also gives you a good idea of the handling of the airbrush. Which for theSotar I can vouch for. It is one of the best Airbrushes Ive had in my hands.



Robert, I have spent around 15 hours in the last few days practicing with my Sotar on A4 sheets. I tried Vallejo, Model Master, and Tamiya with different mixing rations and air pressures. Sometimes my index finger hurt from fatigue... I also have a few plastic sheets dedicated for painting practice because sometimes there's a combination that works on paper but leaves flooding marks on a primed plastic surface. (By the way, one of the biggest problems with airbrush and paint reviews here on Armorama or anywhere else is that the reviewers are painting on paper sheets instead of plastic. There are lots of differences - but this should be an other thread.) I'm starting to have some confidence in my Sotar as I am practicing with it and I think I will be ready to hit a model with it in a week or two.

Thanks for your valuable help.
Karl187
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Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 11:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

@ Peter
Work with whatever works best for you. My first compressor was also one that was cobbled together from various sources. After that I have sprayed for years with one of those cheap testors membrane compressors. The Omega I got really cheap 1.5 years ago and it was never used. Hell I know a guy who used a car tire as powerhouse for his AB.

The rule is mostly that the thinner your paint the less pressure is needed to atomize it correctly without splatter. I know that with the sotar (and to lesser extent my Revelll Flex Masterclass) with very thin paint I use a Bar pressure way below the 2 bar. Somewhere between 1 and 1.5 Bar. Depending on the paintmix. Also the thinner your paint the less easy it covers so you need to do some extra passes to cover you primer fully.

Easiest practice.... Whip out a white sheet of A4 paper and sit down at the bench fir an afternoon with some good music in the background. And start testing thinning ratios and pressures by spraying lines and dots and try to get your results consistent. Also gives you a good idea of the handling of the airbrush. Which for theSotar I can vouch for. It is one of the best Airbrushes Ive had in my hands.



Robert, I have spent around 15 hours in the last few days practicing with my Sotar on A4 sheets. I tried Vallejo, Model Master, and Tamiya with different mixing rations and air pressures. Sometimes my index finger hurt from fatigue... I also have a few plastic sheets dedicated for painting practice because sometimes there's a combination that works on paper but leaves flooding marks on a primed plastic surface. (By the way, one of the biggest problems with airbrush and paint reviews here on Armorama or anywhere else is that the reviewers are painting on paper sheets instead of plastic. There are lots of differences - but this should be an other thread.) I'm starting to have some confidence in my Sotar as I am practicing with it and I think I will be ready to hit a model with it in a week or two.

Thanks for your valuable help.



I've reviewed two airbrushes here on armorama and I always ensure that I have evidence of having painted a camo scheme on a model with them. Painting on a piece of paper is very easy compared to a model, as you have mentioned. And as others have mentioned- air pressure is very important when doing this- too much and you'll flood the paint onto the surface, too little and the paint won't adhere properly.

You also need to be gentle on the trigger action- I find spraying the faintest line helps as I then build it up over repeated passes- this helps give me greater control over a camo scheme- a lightly airbrushed line can be much more easily corrected than a heavy one so I always ensure I practice getting my trigger pressure just right.

It is also important, with an airbrush like the Sotar or Renegade Krome to properly utilise the paint flow dial at the rear of the body- for very fine work the stop should be set so you can't fully depress the trigger and swamp your work. When I set my Krome I only allow the trigger a very small amount of movement via the paint flow dial- it kinda provides a safety net when doing lines but I have enough slack to fill in camo areas if and when I need to.
tray
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Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 09:09 AM UTC
Hello Karl,

Please don't take my previous remark personally. I have checked your reviews and they are executed the way I wish all reviews were done, using plastic surfaces as well as paper sheets. If you take a look at the review of the Sotar for a bad example then you see that not all reviews go this deep.

Well I just realized that the Sotar review was done by Robert... Uhh.

I am utilizing the needle stopper too. I am also experimenting with its secondary function that prevents the needle from going to a fully closed position. This is something that was not available in my previous airbrushes (I know it's a patent of Badger) and I find it the best technique for painting single dots. Just press the trigger for a moment and there it is. Without this "reverse limiter" I needed to pull back the trigger and push it forward immediately but this often resulted in blotches because as the needle moved forward it also pushed a certain amount of paint through the nozzle. It also prevented most of the clogging and paint building up on the needle tip when using Vallejo paints. Awesome thing.
FAUST
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Posted: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 10:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If you take a look at the review of the Sotar for a bad example then you see that not all reviews go this deep.

Well I just realized that the Sotar review was done by Robert... Uhh.



Everybody is entitled their opinion. Your's is actually the first complaint I ever heard. So I must do something right.
junglejim
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Posted: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 11:20 AM UTC
If you go with Tamiya paints, try their lacquer thinner (yellow cap) or Gunze leveling thinner (also a synthetic lacquer). You'll never use anything else.
As an aside, the only airbrush I've ever witnessed able to do an actual consistent pencil width line with hobby paints is a Harder and Steenbeck.

Jim
Karl187
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Posted: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 11:40 PM UTC
I think a lot of airbrush reviews even on paper are still relevant. I, personally, have nothing wrong with Robert's review- it contained all the info one would need to make an informed choice about the Sotar- thats pretty much the purpose of a review.

The main problem, in my opinion, with airbrushes in general is that they are not geared toward just one type of artist, i.e. they are not made just for us modellers. They are marketed toward and used by lots of crafts from graphic artists to cake decorators. So essentially we have to develop skills to overcome the fact that the tool we are using is not 100% made just for our needs.

Like everyone else I always hone my airbrush skills on paper first- you simply have to in my humble opinion, in order to get the hang of the way it works and what kind of behaviour you can expect from the airbrush.

As I always say about pretty much every aspect of modelling- you need to experiment and practice- and airbrushing is probably, besides scratch-building, one of the most difficult aspects of the hobby to do.

Sorry if this was a bit off-topic but I feel that many people are put off airbrushing by some of the more tricky and difficult aspects of it- I get really frustrated all the time with my airbrushes- the only way to work through it is to experiment and practice !
Desaer
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 01:09 PM UTC
I actually just got a Sotar as well, couldn't resist the 72$ deal on amazon, and have been worried about this same thing. My thought was to snag the medium or heavy conversion kits. Does anyone have any experience with these and how they handle acrylics?
didgeboy
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Posted: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 03:28 PM UTC
I too purchased the Sotar on the Amazon deal, if there are those of you that missed this, wow, what a deal!! $60 shipped to my door. Fine tip and I have found that clogging is an issue with Tamiya, even when I thought I thinned enough. I will be going back to try this again with all of the above suggestions. Thank you all for your input, makes these little challenges manageable. Cheers.
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