i was reading tony greenlands book.
and he said to put a stain coat instead of a dull coat on the tank.
and i did that.
and it looked like crap lol.
so i put the dull coat over the stain and that looks better who else read that in tony
greenlands book

I dont have the book, or I have never read it, but I can see why some might try this. If the metal of a tank were clean it would have a slight sheen. Maybe with a satin coat and and a patchy dust effect with pastels or tamiya buff misted on, this could simulate a real meatal effect instead of painted plastic. Im sure if a modeller like Mr. Greenwood, includes this step he has some way of making it work. I have read posts a few times where modellers have used satin coats or patches of satin and it has worked nicely. I have never had the guts to try it, but would love to read the article. What book is it? Might be worth a read!

It's Panzer Modelling Masterclass - First or Second Edition.

Tony Greenland's technique is his own and one that creates an interesting result. His results, like them or not, speak for themselves. For a certain period of time in US Armored history, the satin finish is most appropriate. His satin finish technique works in concert with his finishing style. Totally dead flat finishes do not complement the other techniques he uses to render his miniatures.

satin finish technique he uses is nice i tryed to get my tank like that but it was 2 shiny,
he does that on ww 2 german stuff.
and the book is the First Edition.
and yes tony greenland is a great great builder.
i think he on par with shep paine

I actually understand and advocate his thoughts behind the satin coat. My finishes aren't dead flat - but are noticeably a degree flatter than the ones he strives for. His book is worthwhile reading for those interested in finer points on rendering scale finishes.

I think some modern vehicles have been deliverd in semi gloss finishes rather than dead flat, especially where there was a bio-chemical threat, The semi glass leaves fewer microscopic pits to hold chemical and bio agents than a finish that is absolutely flat. I don;t knkow if this is stil the practice or if it is even maintained in the field. Rob G., if you read this, can you elaborate?

Hi. I've sprayed on the Semi-gloss or satin varnishes on vehicles and I can't say I was totally thrilled with the result. To me it almost looked like a dullish gloss. I like the Dull-cote better, personally speaking. Although the satin finish may work better for certain vehicles or a certain setting one wishes to place them in.

Greenland is second to none in his building and has much to offer in his book(s). Well worth the money spent if you can find it, esp. for German armor builders.

Take care, sgirty

True enough, just because I like and understand the style, doesn't mean that I believe it is appropriate for all miniature settings. I think it is one of several a modeler would do well to add to their bag of tricks in model building. A satin finish is especially good for diorama modelers depicting a rainy area - without lumping on the gloss lacquer coats.

Gunnie, this seems to be kinda like the finish on a few miniatures of yours. At least from the photos of some of the vehicles on your site. Whatever you use...it's a wonderful effect. Clean uncluttered pure detail. Then again, maybe it's the lighting you use...nah ...it's the finishes. dead-on.

And did i mention that THIS kind of forum feedback is what attracted me to this site?

kglack

Yes Sir - guilty as charged. I like to think my finish as more of a "satin minus". I cut Testors DullCote at least 50% and sometimes greater when I'm finishing out a model. This gives me the less-than-satin finish when dulling down a gloss protective coat. The small amount of reflected light plays with other weathering and painting techniques I like to employ. It's just a way to enhance three dimensionalism without the yucky drybrushing technique - in all lighting levels. I try to get close to dead flat finishes in areas of deep shadow - like underneath a tank sponson or the chassis/frame of a truck. This also enhances the impression the miniature creates for the observer.

A very slight sheen looks good when flat dust/dirt is then sprayed over it. A straight, out of the bottle satin seems to be much too much of a sheen. Mixing satin with the flat coat is one way to bring it out. Another way is to use Future as a thinner in the cover paint. I have been a little afraid of using that one though, I like to be able to control things a bit more. But then it all depends on your own finishing style. I agree that Greenland's book is a MUST have!
capnjock

A little off-topic, but you will find on the actual vehicles a mix of satin and dead flat. The paint job goes through so much abuse, that it at times looks rather blotchy, with shiny spots here and dead flat ones there. This can be very difficult to recreate in scale. I have yet to find my "happy place" when it comes to the finish.

Just a thought, but, unless your vehicle is fresh off the assembly line, then the "finish" we're talking about here, in most cases, is one that started out new...has been hand washed or rinsed off with water hoses and rags many many times. By a vast different amount of G.I's from all walks of life. Some being more detail oriented and others not so. Hence the "missed a spot" look some people's weathering has. Then with alittle road grime/dust added, the look would be a slight sheen in places and dusty (that's 1/35 scale dust applied with an airbrush...not the 1/1 dust size that accumlates in the corners on the floor around your computer table at this moment). Just look closley at the things in Sabot's motor pool and you'll see that very same effect.

Then again it's a personal preference thingy...and hey, "get your grimey paws offah my truck"

kglack

Agreed. I like to try and model what I "see". The even and blended finish mantra likely comes from IPMS/USA influence in emphasing a uniform finish on scale miniatures in display in contests. It really isn't a bad thing to promote. Most experienced modelers and judges know the difference from the real thing and a finish on the scale miniatures, but often the desire to "win" a contest affects how a modeler may approach finishing out their model kit. That's unfortunate, as I think the desire to "win" squashes creativity and really stretching a modeler's envelope in the stage where they're learning and growing in skill technique.

In my experience, the "satin" levels of finishes are just as accepted as the dead flat ones - perhaps more so because of the effects achievable with different lighting and forms of extreme weathering. The most successful make use of both dead flat and satin finishes where appropriate. US OD Green is a perfect example where the various tones displayed on the real subjects are better mimiced in scale by varying both paint hue and combinations of flat and satin "filters". A dead flat OD Green finish is really "dead" - to use Tony Greenland's description.

Having quite a bit of experience in Italian modern tanks I can say that our AFVs are "slightly gloss". I tried to replicate the effect, but I never managed to get the right level of "shine" on my models without any success at all, so I gave it up...
Ciao

I think the key word here is splotchy. That is truely the way they look on vehicles. When we painted camo on our real tanks, some colors were totally flat and others had a slight sheen to them...fresh out of the can. As a modeler though I prefer the even tone and generally go for straight flat or real light satin

The newer vehicles I have been getting have a CARC finish that is so rough, it's akin to wet/dry sandpaper. The original colors are very bright, but the finish will show marks easily. Climbing up and down makes marks in the finish, like if you dragged your fingernail across a flat painted model. After a while, the colors fade and dull, but the surface gets smoother.

Sorry tazz, didn't mean to hijack your thread.