AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
Tamiya vs. Enamel
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 01:30 AM UTC
Personally, I would prefer to use Tamiya acryls over any other paint. I am very comfortable with their line. However, you have to be careful airbrushing, so that it doesn't pebble. I've had this happen, twice. I am making the change to MM and Testors enamels, because they give a smooth finish no matter how you spray. Their paint lines are extensive. Is there any drawback to using enamels?
jakes357
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 254 posts
Armorama: 132 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 02:03 AM UTC
Depends on what you consider a drawback.
Enamels require longer drying time than acrylics. Then there is the health hazard thing (always wear a paint mask,ie 3M style not a dust mask) if you value your lungs.
Air pressure & thinning with an airbrush are important, but these things are the nature of enamels not necessarily a drawback.
The only drawback I see is the thinners for reducing & cleaning brushes/airbrushes which are flammable, whereas water is not.
BTW MM does acrylics too, which I've used for along time with no problems.
It's like anything, work with them, see what others do and you'll have good results.
Jake
Enamels require longer drying time than acrylics. Then there is the health hazard thing (always wear a paint mask,ie 3M style not a dust mask) if you value your lungs.
Air pressure & thinning with an airbrush are important, but these things are the nature of enamels not necessarily a drawback.
The only drawback I see is the thinners for reducing & cleaning brushes/airbrushes which are flammable, whereas water is not.
BTW MM does acrylics too, which I've used for along time with no problems.
It's like anything, work with them, see what others do and you'll have good results.
Jake
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 03:09 AM UTC
I just think that enamels are safer. I too have used the MM acrylic line. However, my lhs has a larger selection of enamels. About three times that of acrylics.
BBD468
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 2,465 posts
Armorama: 2,383 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 03:41 AM UTC
Hiya Matt,
I dont understand how your getting pebbles with Tamiya. What do you thin with and ratio, and what pressure do you use? I thin with lacquer thinner only to about 60% thinner to 40% paint and about 15 psi. and i never have pebbles, just a smooth finish and even smoother with a tad of Tamiya gloss in tha mix. I use an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS.
Sounds like your paint is drying before it hits the surface. How far away and how wet do you spray your coats?
Just want to help bro.
No way would i switch from Tamiya to Enamels. Ive seen many switch from Enamels to Tamiya and other Acylics.
Anyways good luck Man.
Gary
I dont understand how your getting pebbles with Tamiya. What do you thin with and ratio, and what pressure do you use? I thin with lacquer thinner only to about 60% thinner to 40% paint and about 15 psi. and i never have pebbles, just a smooth finish and even smoother with a tad of Tamiya gloss in tha mix. I use an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS.
Sounds like your paint is drying before it hits the surface. How far away and how wet do you spray your coats?
Just want to help bro.
No way would i switch from Tamiya to Enamels. Ive seen many switch from Enamels to Tamiya and other Acylics.Anyways good luck Man.
Gary
badger66
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 251 posts
Armorama: 232 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 04:02 AM UTC
Have to agree with Gary. Have had very few issues with Tamiya or MM acrylics
SgtRam
Contributing Writer
#197
Joined: March 06, 2011
KitMaker: 3,971 posts
Armorama: 2,859 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 04:15 AM UTC
The only issue I have with MM acrylics is masking. It seems no matter how clean the model is or the type of primer, MM acrylics tend to lift with masking.
BBD468
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 2,465 posts
Armorama: 2,383 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 04:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The only issue I have with MM acrylics is masking. It seems no matter how clean the model is or the type of primer, MM acrylics tend to lift with masking.
I agree, ive heard of that with enamels many times. Tamiya thinned with Lacquer thinner BITES into the surface and ive never, not once had the paint lift from tape or any other factor.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 05:44 AM UTC
I spray at about 25psi(I don't have a regulator) thinned 3:5, ipa to paint. I hold my airbrush about two inches from the surface. The airbrush is an Iwata HP-C.
BBD468
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 2,465 posts
Armorama: 2,383 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 06:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I spray at about 25psi(I don't have a regulator) thinned 3:5, ipa to paint. I hold my airbrush about two inches from the surface. The airbrush is an Iwata HP-C.
Hey Matt,
IPA being Iso alcohol? Thats the only time ive heard of pebbling is when modelers use Iso Alcohol or Tamiya X-20A.
Just my 2 cents, if you were to try thinning more and pressure down a bit so it doesnt atomize so much and spray a bit wetter coats. Just a suggestion mate. Dude, Tamiya Lacquer thinner, Klean-Strip Lacquer thinner and Mr. Color Thinner works awesome with Tamiya paints, much better than the Alcohols.
I Have a great friend of mine and a member here has been using MM Enamels for many many years. He recently tried Tamiya Acrylics thinned with Mr. Color Thinner for the first time and his results on his King Tiger were outstanding....first time ever. He said never again to MM Enamels for Air Brushing!
His results speak for themself:
http://modelerssocialclub.proboards.com/thread/4073/dragon-king-tiger-zimmerite-build?page=8
Cheers,
Gary
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 08:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI spray at about 25psi(I don't have a regulator) thinned 3:5, ipa to paint. I hold my airbrush about two inches from the surface. The airbrush is an Iwata HP-C.
Hey Matt,
IPA being Iso alcohol? Thats the only time ive heard of pebbling is when modelers use Iso Alcohol or Tamiya X-20A.
Just my 2 cents, if you were to try thinning more and pressure down a bit so it doesnt atomize so much and spray a bit wetter coats. Just a suggestion mate. Dude, Tamiya Lacquer thinner, Klean-Strip Lacquer thinner and Mr. Color Thinner works awesome with Tamiya paints, much better than the Alcohols.
I Have a great friend of mine and a member here has been using MM Enamels for many many years. He recently tried Tamiya Acrylics thinned with Mr. Color Thinner for the first time and his results on his King Tiger were outstanding....first time ever. He said never again to MM Enamels for Air Brushing!
His results speak for themself:
http://modelerssocialclub.proboards.com/thread/4073/dragon-king-tiger-zimmerite-build?page=8
Cheers,
Gary
Thanks Gary. I'll give that a try. I will double check, with my lhs to make sure they don't carry thinner.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 10:02 AM UTC
Picked up some Tamiya acryl thinner, at my LHS. They just started carrying it, yesterday. Waiting for the weather to clear up, before I try it.
chumpo
Joined: August 30, 2010
KitMaker: 749 posts
Armorama: 521 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 07:50 PM UTC
Tamiya has a line of enamel paints also, have not seen it here in the usa but its available by mail order or on e bay and free shipping too.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 08:05 PM UTC
I support my lhs, by buying paint and supplies from it. They carry the full range of acryls, but no enamels. The markup on kits is 75%. So, I purchase those online.
chumpo
Joined: August 30, 2010
KitMaker: 749 posts
Armorama: 521 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 08:15 PM UTC
its just that the color variations of Tamiya enamel and acrylics is negligible. like I said its not carried here in the USA. the hobby shops where I live at are more expensive than buying mail order for me. example lifecolor paint sets lhs 34 plus tax mail order 21 shipping included. so I tended to driff away from them.
OldWarloke
Joined: October 14, 2012
KitMaker: 2,663 posts
Armorama: 2,649 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 08:30 PM UTC
I use both the Tamiya and MM the only problemthat I have had is the MM tend to set up in the bottle after thinning.
If I dont use it all after a few weeks the Enamel is rubberyany useless.
Do any of you have this problem?
I have used both MM thinner and/or Laquer thinner and get the same result.
Thanks Donald
If I dont use it all after a few weeks the Enamel is rubberyany useless.
Do any of you have this problem?
I have used both MM thinner and/or Laquer thinner and get the same result.
Thanks Donald
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 09:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I use both the Tamiya and MM the only problemthat I have had is the MM tend to set up in the bottle after thinning.
If I dont use it all after a few weeks the Enamel is rubberyany useless.
Do any of you have this problem?
I have used both MM thinner and/or Laquer thinner and get the same result.
Thanks Donald
This is one reason I prefer a gravity fed ab. I probably have 15 jars for my old Badger. It is difficult to mix just the right amount of paint. So, mix as little as you can and be prepared to dump the left overs. That being said, your paint should last longer if you use bottles with gaskets.
cyarborough
Joined: December 17, 2010
KitMaker: 9 posts
Armorama: 1 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 09:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I use both the Tamiya and MM the only problemthat I have had is the MM tend to set up in the bottle after thinning.
If I dont use it all after a few weeks the Enamel is rubberyany useless.
Do any of you have this problem?
I have used both MM thinner and/or Laquer thinner and get the same result.
Thanks Donald
If you are referring to MM enamels you should just be able to add some thinner to the bottle and stir it up to bring it back to life. I only use Testors enamel thinner so don't know if it will work after thinning with lacquer thinner. I bought one of the badger battery operated stirrers to help with this. To me those things are worth their weight in gold! It mixes up paint I would have otherwise thrown out.
FAUST
#130
Joined: June 07, 2002
KitMaker: 8,797 posts
Armorama: 4,190 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 10:17 PM UTC
Depending on the airbrush you use you have to thin your Tamiya paint really well. Can't give you any ratio's I usually do it by feel and eye (how fast a piece of tissue soaks a drop of the thinned paint up) But the best tip I ever got was adding a few drops of X22 clear into the mix. You get a silky smooth satin finish that way. Which just as painted metal has a light sheen.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 10:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Depending on the airbrush you use you have to thin your Tamiya paint really well. Can't give you any ratio's I usually do it by feel and eye (how fast a piece of tissue soaks a drop of the thinned paint up) But the best tip I ever got was adding a few drops of X22 clear into the mix. You get a silky smooth satin finish that way. Which just as painted metal has a light sheen.
I actually have a bottle of X22 I bought by accident. As for thinning the acryls, I use the same ratio and thinner, constantly. Out of six models, three "pebbled". This was using my ab at 2-3". I'm using a Badger Sotar(with which I have had no problems) and an Iwata HP-C.
PantherF
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 11:17 PM UTC
When you say 60% thinner and 40% paint, do you actually measure this or is it done by eye? I have a Paasche air brush DA set. So should I measure out each and then combine in the paint reservoir?
All this talk is sweet information for me as I think I would rather use Tamiyas paints for a quicker dry time.
Thanks guys for taking the time to answer my questions!
~ Jeff
All this talk is sweet information for me as I think I would rather use Tamiyas paints for a quicker dry time.
Thanks guys for taking the time to answer my questions!
~ Jeff
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 11:35 PM UTC
I have been doing it long enough to eyeball the mix. I would recommend mixing, prior to loading your ab. I have found that, if you mix it in the reservoir, there is always some paint that settles to the bottom. This can affect the quality you get and makes clean up all that much more difficult.
PantherF
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 12:01 AM UTC
Thanks, that is a good tip to know. I like the Tamiya acrylics because they clean up in water, so a couple of mixing/measuring cups will be an excellent start for me.
I am working on setting my stuff up this week (like I have said before too) and hopefully will be in business soon.
I'll need plenty of practice too.
~ Jeff
I am working on setting my stuff up this week (like I have said before too) and hopefully will be in business soon.
I'll need plenty of practice too.
~ Jeff
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 01:12 AM UTC
Mini Moo creamer cups are perfect for mixing paint. Of course, you would have to justify the cost by drinking more coffee or hot tea.
FAUST
#130
Joined: June 07, 2002
KitMaker: 8,797 posts
Armorama: 4,190 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 01:41 AM UTC
I have the tamiya colors that I use most already premixed in glass jars with a screw on lid. I have a bunch of those and I keep all the empty Tamiya jars for this purpose as well. Shake and ready to use. Kind of like your own model air paint. The special color mixes that I only need small amounts of are mixed in those small cups that hospital patients get their pills in. Got a few bags full of those.
I never mix it in the cup as it is hard to mix it consistently that way.
I never mix it in the cup as it is hard to mix it consistently that way.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 01:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have the tamiya colors that I use most already premixed in glass jars with a screw on lid. I have a bunch of those and I keep all the empty Tamiya jars for this purpose as well. Shake and ready to use. Kind of like your own model air paint. The special color mixes that I only need small amounts of are mixed in those small cups that hospital patients get their pills in. Got a few bags full of those.
I never mix it in the cup as it is hard to mix it consistently that way.
I've never had a problem with inconsistent mixtures, EVER.
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