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Hf.2 Schwerer Heeres feld wagen
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Monday, June 03, 2013 - 08:14 AM UTC
Italeri has released a Hf.2 Schwerer Heeresfeldwagen in 1/35th scale onto the market
Link to Item
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
Link to Item
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
jargonking
Joined: May 08, 2006
KitMaker: 269 posts
Armorama: 247 posts
Posted: Monday, June 03, 2013 - 08:30 AM UTC
It's a reissue of the Esci kit from the 1970's...not bad for it's time but not up to the likes of Miniart's recent offerings...still it builds up into a nice model.
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Monday, June 03, 2013 - 08:16 PM UTC
Ahummmmmmmmm...................
If you make your modeling starting young nephew of 9 happy by donating him everything except the parts for the wagon, next to purchasing one of the MB Ltd sets ( like e.g.: "somewhere in Europe"), which has far better detailed draft horses and wagoneers, you may end up with a small, but nice model, which shows the most important means of transport of a Kavallerie Division.
For a good source of information about these wagons, one may have a look at the book "Kavellerie der Wehrmacht" ( ISBN 3-89555-310-7, Podzun Verlag ).
From pag -153- onwards, a lot of detailled info is given about so called Bespannfahrzeuge.
Actually, the number of horses for this wagon is incorrect. The Schwere Feldwagen Hf.2 weighted 800 kgs, able to load 1,200 kgs. and was pulled by 4 horses.
The Hf.1 was 610 kgs. with a load of 610 kgs.
Due to its relativ high own total weight this wagon was less used at the front, but more used in second lines by so called Nachschubschwadronen ( logistic squadrons).
I had hoped that Italeri would have put some more effort in a far better model of this interesting subject. This is not helping them to create a good image in the modeling society.
If you make your modeling starting young nephew of 9 happy by donating him everything except the parts for the wagon, next to purchasing one of the MB Ltd sets ( like e.g.: "somewhere in Europe"), which has far better detailed draft horses and wagoneers, you may end up with a small, but nice model, which shows the most important means of transport of a Kavallerie Division.
For a good source of information about these wagons, one may have a look at the book "Kavellerie der Wehrmacht" ( ISBN 3-89555-310-7, Podzun Verlag ).
From pag -153- onwards, a lot of detailled info is given about so called Bespannfahrzeuge.
Actually, the number of horses for this wagon is incorrect. The Schwere Feldwagen Hf.2 weighted 800 kgs, able to load 1,200 kgs. and was pulled by 4 horses.
The Hf.1 was 610 kgs. with a load of 610 kgs.
Due to its relativ high own total weight this wagon was less used at the front, but more used in second lines by so called Nachschubschwadronen ( logistic squadrons).
I had hoped that Italeri would have put some more effort in a far better model of this interesting subject. This is not helping them to create a good image in the modeling society.
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 01:48 AM UTC
This was a cutting edge kit when first released many many moons ago. With a little work it makes a nice addition to dios. This gear was used by almost every Inf Div,not only cavalry,well into the war and horse drawn equipment was used right till the end of the war in large numbers.
Italeri got the harnesses on the horses pretty close as far as accuracy goes. I always thought the figs looked more like 1/32 scale though?
J
Italeri got the harnesses on the horses pretty close as far as accuracy goes. I always thought the figs looked more like 1/32 scale though?
J
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 04:04 AM UTC
Hi Jerry, right you are............... during its release we all bought it! But nowadays standards require better harnasses and better wagoneers. Furtermore, I agree upon the fact that horses powered transport was over 50% over the Axis total logistic capacity. Saying this, I still wonder why nobody started a horse pulled piece of German artillery.
Hisham
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 04:08 AM UTC
I remember building this old ESCI kit way back in the eighties when I was living in the States... not bad for those days. Brings back memories of Illinois 
Hisham
Hisham
pzcreations
Joined: May 24, 2006
KitMaker: 2,106 posts
Armorama: 1,116 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 04:50 AM UTC
I think after seeing this in Sheppard Paines Diorama book everyone bought one.. I know I built one way back when
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 06:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Jerry, right you are............... during its release we all bought it! But nowadays standards require better harnasses and better wagoneers. Furtermore, I agree upon the fact that horses powered transport was over 50% over the Axis total logistic capacity. Saying this, I still wonder why nobody started a horse pulled piece of German artillery.
You mean like this?
Gotrek58
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 673 posts
Armorama: 286 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 08:26 AM UTC
My father was in Russia with 292. Inf. Div / AR 292 as an NCO in somewhat like a maintenance unit - as a blacksmith (Heeresbeschlagmeister). All supply, ammo etc. was transported by horses. Even all their guns (10.5cm / 10cm / 15cm) were horse drawn!
Beautiful old kit.
Michael
Beautiful old kit.
Michael
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 08:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
My father was in Russia with 292. Inf. Div / AR 292 as an NCO in somewhat like a maintenance unit - as a blacksmith (Heeresbeschlagmeister). All supply, ammo etc. was transported by horses. Even all their guns (10.5cm / 10cm / 15cm) were horse drawn!
Beautiful old kit.
Michael
I am looking for pics of the 105mm horsedrawn arty,specially the limbers I want to finish up my model18/40 limber and release it as kit in resin. Would your Dad have any pics or drawings?
J
Jmarles
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 08:07 PM UTC
Italeri already re-boxed the original Esci kit that had two wagons. I assume this kit will be half the price at retail level? ...um..not! 
Plasticbattle
#003
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 08:26 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Italeri already re-boxed the original Esci kit that had two wagons. I assume this kit will be half the price at retail level? ...um..not!
Yes they did. I got two of them when they first came out a few years ago. Kit 6437 - German Horse Convoy.
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 08:53 PM UTC
Hi Jerry,
Did you have a look in the following books:
German Light Field Artillery 1935 - 1945, ISBN 0-88740-760-9
German Heavy Field Artillery 1935 - 1945, ISBN 0-88740-759-5
both by Mr. Joachim Engelmann, published by Schiffer Military/Aviation History?
Or try
German Artillery in World War II 1939 - 1945, also by Engelmann,
ISBN 0-88740-762-5, published by Podzun-Pallas Verlag.
The last book is mainly focused on SP artillery, but some, though not always very clear, photos show limbers.
The first books gave me the impression that limbers were carefully burried under heaps of gear! (and later during the war: folliage).
I presume you showed us a partially finished model since the first horse misses its rider! Nevertheless: you made me curious about the rest since it looks very good. Pls., show us more! And help us to make the modeling cies aware that after ICM and MiniArt released their first proper horse teams, a complete German gun is due now! Using the ICM team is no option, since the tack is Russian and differs in a lot of details from German tack.
Thanks in advance,
P.
Did you have a look in the following books:
German Light Field Artillery 1935 - 1945, ISBN 0-88740-760-9
German Heavy Field Artillery 1935 - 1945, ISBN 0-88740-759-5
both by Mr. Joachim Engelmann, published by Schiffer Military/Aviation History?
Or try
German Artillery in World War II 1939 - 1945, also by Engelmann,
ISBN 0-88740-762-5, published by Podzun-Pallas Verlag.
The last book is mainly focused on SP artillery, but some, though not always very clear, photos show limbers.
The first books gave me the impression that limbers were carefully burried under heaps of gear! (and later during the war: folliage).
I presume you showed us a partially finished model since the first horse misses its rider! Nevertheless: you made me curious about the rest since it looks very good. Pls., show us more! And help us to make the modeling cies aware that after ICM and MiniArt released their first proper horse teams, a complete German gun is due now! Using the ICM team is no option, since the tack is Russian and differs in a lot of details from German tack.
Thanks in advance,
P.
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2013 - 01:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Jerry,
Did you have a look in the following books:
German Light Field Artillery 1935 - 1945, ISBN 0-88740-760-9
German Heavy Field Artillery 1935 - 1945, ISBN 0-88740-759-5
both by Mr. Joachim Engelmann, published by Schiffer Military/Aviation History?
Or try
German Artillery in World War II 1939 - 1945, also by Engelmann,
ISBN 0-88740-762-5, published by Podzun-Pallas Verlag.
The last book is mainly focused on SP artillery, but some, though not always very clear, photos show limbers.
The first books gave me the impression that limbers were carefully burried under heaps of gear! (and later during the war: folliage).
I presume you showed us a partially finished model since the first horse misses its rider! Nevertheless: you made me curious about the rest since it looks very good. Pls., show us more! And help us to make the modeling cies aware that after ICM and MiniArt released their first proper horse teams, a complete German gun is due now! Using the ICM team is no option, since the tack is Russian and differs in a lot of details from German tack.
Thanks in advance,
P.
Yes,thanks Paul,I have all of those excellent books already plus a lot of time spent on the internet with search engines running at full speed! Hard to find info on this topic but I made progress.
My horse team in not complete. I took a break after I saw the movie War Horse. I was so sad about the plight of military horses that I didn't want to work on my kit any more. My interest is starting to return though!
J
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2013 - 05:04 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I am looking for pics of the 105mm horsedrawn arty,specially the limbers I want to finish up my model18/40 limber and release it as kit in resin.
Hi Jerry
AFAIK, the Feldhaubitzprotze 18/40 is a simplified variant of the Feldhaubitzprotze 18. Maybe some pics of the latter would be of some help ?
http://www.rindeleht.ee/foorum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=79637&sid=9f389648225db0a6656cedd62b60d8bd
http://www.rindeleht.ee/foorum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=79585&sid=f4e3d5fb2ecff2b4ebde109d9542ae69
On a side note, Preiser has released a 1/87th scale kit of the leFH 18 howitzer that includes this limber :
kit #16527
H.P.
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2013 - 06:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI am looking for pics of the 105mm horsedrawn arty,specially the limbers I want to finish up my model18/40 limber and release it as kit in resin.
Hi Jerry
AFAIK, the Feldhaubitzprotze 18/40 is a simplified variant of the Feldhaubitzprotze 18. Maybe some pics of the latter would be of some help ?
http://www.rindeleht.ee/foorum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=79637&sid=9f389648225db0a6656cedd62b60d8bd
http://www.rindeleht.ee/foorum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=79585&sid=f4e3d5fb2ecff2b4ebde109d9542ae69
On a side note, Preiser has released a 1/87th scale kit of the leFH 18 howitzer that includes this limber :
kit #16527
H.P.
Holy cow Frenchie,
How do you ALWAYS come up with the perfect ref pics? That first pic was of the 18/40 and the breakdown of the axel that follows was just the item I was missing for my build reference! I even see some nice details that I missed the first time around. This is just too cool. WOW!!! Thanks!
Maybe I will also build the earlier all metal version shown in the second link. What language is that? Finnish?
J
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2013 - 08:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What language is that? Finnish?
J
Estonian, according to my good friend Google
You're welcome Jerry.
H.P.
sampiero
Joined: January 14, 2008
KitMaker: 257 posts
Armorama: 250 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2013 - 08:48 AM UTC
In fact it is an old kit of the late Mark ESCI, this one product to also release among other horse-drawn ambulance it produced a series of military motorcycle ninth (harley, triumph, BMW and Zundap)
jo
joFrenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Friday, June 07, 2013 - 02:33 AM UTC
Jerry I've sent you a PM
H.P.
H.P.
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Friday, June 07, 2013 - 05:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jerry I've sent you a PM
H.P.
Thanks man,
J
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