Hiya

I've used the hairspray technique a couple of times now, but not to any great extent. This time I thought I'd grasp the nettle by doing a whitewashed stug with two levels of hairspray.

I've applied a tamiya acrylic hull red mixed with lacquer thinner. Two coats of Ellenet classic hold. Then applied my dark yellow camo pattern mixed with acrylic thinner. I've chipped that and the results were ok, not brilliant, but ok. I found it particularly difficult to chip a lot of the camo pattern.

I concluded it was probably because I was trying to chip paint mixed with thinner.

So I then applied two coats of Ellenet and applied a Vallejo off white, I used Vallejo simply because I had it pre-mixed as an off white. I mixed this with water. I was right in thinking the water mix would make it easier to chip, in fact it's coming off too easily - in fact it's coming off in sheets and uncontrollable.

If I let the paint cure a little more do you learned people think I will get a chippable finish? It's been cured 12 hours so far.

Any other tips?

Hi Andy,

Your conclusions on the trouble areas are essentially correct, and you compounded the issue on the whitewash layer by using Vallejo for the distressed finish. Experience has shown Tamiya's will give superior results when attempting to chip with products like HS and Chipping Fluids. Thinning with water creates the weakest bond to the model and makes it easier to chip, so you're right in that regards.

Vallejo is a vinyl acrylic and dries to a "shell" and is the main reason for the large sheeting effect. I'd also venture you had a touch too much HS and probably applied too much water too fast as well, adding to the frustration. I'd guess hold the model farther away when spraying, I go at arms length, and move the can faster going for a very even coat. Then repeat.

There are no real benefits to waiting longer, acrylics dry almost as fast as we can work with them. When you add the water, don't soak the model at first. You really want to get the feel with it on the first chip, this will get you going and tell you how wet to make each section as you move along. Do not wet an area and let it sit for a while as you work on other areas. That will create additional issues too, usually leading to excessive chips.

Treat this model as a training exercise, these ideas take time and practice to master. It's good that you are going through this, the next models will greatly benefit from it.

Best,

Mike
http://www.facebook.com/RinaldiStudio

Thanks Mike

I was actually trying to follow the technique you used on the Panther in your book!

What you say makes perfect sense. I'm struggling to break through the surface (vinyl) layer of paint, then when I do it's lifting in sections.

I'm thinking I have three choices:-

1. Persevere and see if I can make it look reasonable.

2. Accept that it's lifting in sections, embrace that and try to take most of it off - but leaving it in recesses. Then re-apply the whitewash with Tamiya. (might produce an interesting effect in itself)

3. Try to weather it more subtely using the lacquer thinner technique you used on the DAK Panzer IV (I think that was it, I haven't got the book handy)

What would you suggest? Whatever I can see I'm going to have to recover this quite well before I use the Fruil Winterketten I'd intended for it! Fortunately it was straight out of the box and was always intended as a practice - but you always want to make it something you're proud of.

Thanks for your help

You could just use Tamiya's recommended technique. It does not require the removal of any paint. Get you kit painted, as normal. Instead of using any other products, just vary the mix of white and thinner. Spray as appropriate.

Andy, one thing that I think Mike suggests in his book (if I remember correctly, and I re-read his post just now thinking he might have mentioned it...) is that if the paint proves difficult to chip with water, to use a chemical to chip it with rather than just water. I think he suggests airbrush cleaning fluid, although I have also found that nail varnish remover also works. Because it dissolves the paint, it's different from using water, so it takes a little getting used to in the way that it softens the paint.

In fact, it seems to me that if you have a very tough and stable primer, such as red oxide automotive primer, underneath, and then Tamiya acrylic as your base colour coat, it is possible to chip the base coat to reveal the red primer without needing the intermediate hairspray (or chipping fluid) layer at all.

Hi guys,

There is definitely more than one way to proceed, and very importantly, being able to work around issues like this to achieve a good final result is critical. Every one of my models has had a "detour" arise at some point that required me to alter, or adjust, or outright correct, so it is not a bad thing and in the end the experience gained is vital.

On to the issues then. You have options Andy...

1) Try to remove as much of the Vallejo as you can, and simply repeat the HS with Tamiya white instead.

2) Keep it as is, use the effects as a lower layer and seal with a quick varnish layer to control the pesky previous one, and repeat as above using Tamiya.

3) Work with it and move on to the weathering, you can do a lot of effects with mapping in acrylics, followed by OPR to render out the surface to get something you're happy with.

I'd probably combine 2 & 3 if it was my model...

As for applying another chipping technique such as the lacquer thinner removal idea, you can certainly do this. But for correcting the Vallejo whitewash that won't really help in that regards, it's more of adding another effect to the mixture. I'm all about working in layers with multiple techniques, but that really is a separate topic even if you decide to do that process on this model. There is no right or wrong with that idea.

Anyway, good attitude mate and press on. Post some pics when you can. Hopefully this advice is of some help.

Best,

Mike
www.facebook.com/RinaldiStudio

Hi

Well I tried! I went for your option 2 Mike.

I was incredibly careful and used an almost dry brush. I managed to get a really nice effect on the front glacis where I wore the paint away so gradually it created a translucent look. It took 30 mins to do a relatively small area, but I felt it looked so good it was worth sticking with.

Unfortunately when I moved to the larger panels no matter how careful I was too much paint was coming away with even the lightest stroke. It was quickly obvious that it looked just plain wrong - and rubbish!

I'm now in the process of stripping as much of it off as I can. I'll try to redo it using Tamiya. If it doesn't work I'll use it as a test bed for all the techniques I've been too scared to use on a live model, inc lacquer thinner paint removal.

Another thing I did find out. Vallejo acrylic sticks like hell to oil paint (I'd used it for my tool handles). Anyone know why that is - I find it helps if I understand how these things work?

Thanks everyone for your advice, it's very much appreciated.

You could try it, in reverse. Lay down a coat of white. Then, hit it with extra hold hairspray. Apply the camo colors and try stripping those off.

Something tells me you're not taking this altogether seriously

I am. If you are removing too much white, why not apply the camo over the top of a coat of white? The result should be opposite that of painting white over camo.

Because that doesn't make any sense. It will look wrong as the parts that get pulled off are the parts that should stay, and vice versa.

Well, I am currently out of hairspray. However, tomorrow I can post photos of how I apply a white wash.

Andy,

I've been there. I've painted a model and completly hated the result so I used spray on oven cleaner to strip the model back to bear plastic. Then I washed it and started over. In fact I did this twice to the same model since I just didn't like the paint job either time. Good luck and I'm looking forward to seeing some photos.

Kevin

Well that's sort of worked!

Resprayed with Tamiya. The chipping is far better. Slight problem in that I had to respray slightly heavier than I would have liked in order to cover what remained of the Vallejo. This made chipping harder than could have been. But the results are still far better.

Now to apply some sprayed numbers, chip them, then on to the interesting bit. Oils and pigments :-)

I'll post some pics if im happy enough ;-)

Thanks for your help