Armorama :: which Stuart tank is this

Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.

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which Stuart tank is this

mat

Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 03:51 AM UTC

Hi all,

I am going to make little a diorama of the liberation of my city. The city of Venlo in the Netherlands was liberated by the Santa Fe division (the east bank of the river Maas that is). My grandmother told me a nice story about a nazi that did not want to surrender himself, so they "persuaded" him by shooting a shell in the house where he was hiding. The damage is still visible. My grandmother mentioned "a tank" but since the damage was not that huge I guessed it was a lighter type. I found a pic of this one, which looks like a Stuart. It is a bit blurry, is there an expert who can confirm this? Is it a specific type?

Dutchy3RTR

England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 04:17 AM UTC

Judging by the turret hatches and AE position I'd say an M5A1 Mat.

mat

Limburg, Netherlands
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 07:14 AM UTC

Thanks for your help Ken,

it seems I have to buy an AFV club or Tamiya kit now..

Cheers,

Mat

pseudorealityx

Georgia, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 07:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for your help Ken,

it seems I have to buy an AFV club or Tamiya kit now..

Cheers,

Mat

The Tamiya kit has all sorts of issues. The AFVClub kit is quite nice.

KurtLaughlin

Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 12:45 PM UTC

Get the "late" AFV Club M5A1, the one with the stowage box on the rear and the folding turret AA MG mount with the curved shield.

KL

mat

Limburg, Netherlands
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Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - 06:39 AM UTC

thanks for the kit advice guys

tankmodeler

#417

Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - 11:22 AM UTC

If you are looking for a build article on that kit, I did one as an AMPS review a couple years ago:

http://www.amps-armor.org/ampssite/Reviews/showReview.aspx?ID=1632&Type=FB

Paul

LeoCmdr

Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - 03:32 PM UTC

Hi Mat,

This is a good post and the history of the liberation of Venlo is even more interesting. I am not by any means a WWII historian but with a little digging on the internet I may be able to shed some light on the M5A1 Stuart in the image you posted.

The Santa Fe Division...actually the 35th Infantry Division had two Tank Battalions attached to the Division. One was the 737th Tank Battalion (fought through the Normandy campaign) and the other was the 784th Tank Battalion.

The 784th was an all African-American Tank Battalion and they were attached to the 35th Infantry Division in February 1945. The 784th was equipped with Shermans in A,B, and C Companies and M5 Stuarts in D Company.

The 784th was the spearhead of the offensive from Widenrath to Venlo. The offensive force moved so fast the Germans did not have time to blow the bridges. On March 1, 1945 the 784th entered Venlo and liberated it from the Germans.

I suspect the M5A1 Stuart in the image may be from D Company, 784th Tank Battalion.

It would be interesting to see if your Grandmother remembers African-American tank crews in Venlo all those many years ago.

Good luck with your project! A great piece of history!

bankmannl

Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - 08:01 PM UTC

Hi guys,

I was born in Venlo and i have a book about the war in that region.
I'll see if I can dig up some pictures about the liberation of Venlo.
I think there were some pictures of Afro-American soldiers in it.
Will be continued !!

Gé

mat

Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: November 18, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, June 13, 2013 - 12:41 AM UTC

actually...about the african americans. My grandmother told me that she was fascinated when she saw one. "The hatch from a tank opened and then I saw one, I was amazed" Remember, this was the east of NL in the 1940's, most people there had never seen anybody with a different skin colour in their whole life.

She also has stories about all the bombing runs she had to sit through because the bridge was an important target. First the runs went parallel to the river to reduce civilian casua;ties. When the bridge could not get destroyed this way, the runs came over the city...Terrible it was she told me. You could hear them coming from far and the sky was black fom the airplanes. The city of Venlo was also on the way to the Ruhrgebiet. The city actually had a nazi airfield with german interceptor planes (Apparantly many Dutch volunteers helped to build it

)

We have a group of people in Venlo that call themselves "Santa Fe" who own US WW2 vehicles, they present themselves to the public every year during a very nice event. This year's is actually next week

Any help with finding more information about the allied forces in Venlo would be highly appreciated!

Matthijs

M4A1Sherman

New York, United States
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Posted: Thursday, June 13, 2013 - 03:32 AM UTC

Hi! I would just like to add a few suggestions; First of all, you will be much happier with the AFV CLUB M5A1 (Late) Stuart kit #AF35161. This kit will cost more money than the TAMIYA M5A1 kit, but it is far more accurate. By the time that you buy all of the "corrections" for the TAMIYA kit, you will probably have more money invested in it than the AFV CLUB M5A1. For references, there are at least a half-dozen books available- The cheaper, but still very good "M5A1 WALK AROUND" and "M5 Light Tank IN ACTION" by SQUADRON/SIGNAL books will help you quite nicely. As for aftermarket updates, I suggest that you look at VOYAGER's M5A1 PE set for AFV CLUB M5A1. Several other aftermarket companies such as VERLINDEN, LEGEND and BLACK DOG make some very nice resin Stowage sets, and TIGER MODEL DESIGNS makes some very nice resin Turret Correction and Update Sets. Track sets are up to you- You can easily use the kit-supplied vinyl tracks, because US Tanks employ "Live" tracks, which, on the real tanks, are supposed to be adjusted as tight as possible, with NO TRACK SAG... Hope this helps... ENJOY!

tankmodeler

#417

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Posted: Thursday, June 13, 2013 - 09:49 AM UTC

Let's face it, the Tamiya kit is fundamentally unfixable. By the time is is even close to the AFV Club kit, you've replaced the entire hull, running gear, turret, and tracks and everything in betweeen.

Paul

LeoCmdr

Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, June 13, 2013 - 02:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

actually...about the african americans. My grandmother told me that she was fascinated when she saw one. "The hatch from a tank opened and then I saw one, I was amazed" Remember, this was the east of NL in the 1940's, most people there had never seen anybody with a different skin colour in their whole life.

She also has stories about all the bombing runs she had to sit through because the bridge was an important target. First the runs went parallel to the river to reduce civilian casua;ties. When the bridge could not get destroyed this way, the runs came over the city...Terrible it was she told me. You could hear them coming from far and the sky was black fom the airplanes. The city of Venlo was also on the way to the Ruhrgebiet. The city actually had a nazi airfield with german interceptor planes (Apparantly many Dutch volunteers helped to build it )

We have a group of people in Venlo that call themselves "Santa Fe" who own US WW2 vehicles, they present themselves to the public every year during a very nice event. This year's is actually next week

Any help with finding more information about the allied forces in Venlo would be highly appreciated!

Matthijs

I think I am on the right track with the information I provided you on the 784th involvement in the liberation of Venlo. The task force moved on from Venlo very quickly and the follow-up units in the Division were used for clearing pockets of Germans that had been bypassed.

My Grandmother was in the Cologne area during the war and she had very similar stories of heading the forests to take shelter during the allied bombing runs. She also spoke of the German troops retreating and then the U.S. troops occupying the area...including African-American troops...she too said she was amazed as she had never been exposed to other cultures.

The 784th ended up around Kelberg, Germany south of Cologne in May, 1945 so there is a possibility that both our Grandmothers encountered troops from the 784th during the last months of the war.

Regardless of which M5 kit you choose you'll have some great historical background information to go with your project....I actually think that is more important than the pros and cons of Tamiya vs. AFV Club!

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