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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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M60 backdated build - need opinion on paint!
BruceJ8365
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Kansas, United States
Joined: December 25, 2012
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2013 - 03:22 AM UTC
I've been slowly plugging away at my M60 conversion. It competes for time with all my other summer projects like putting in a pool and all sorts of other outdoor labor.. ughh...

One thing I've noticed with this long build and lots of time in between sessions is that I end up being able to think about it more and end up rebuilding and redoing lots of things. In the end, it makes it better. In fact, these pics of some of the build I've already scrapped and re-did, for example the exhaust grills - I had a spare detail kit, so I didn't like the results of the one pictured so I did a second one.

I've always thought that paint jobs were the most important layer of any build so I've been debating on how to paint this one..

I've always like the gaudy MASSTER camo of the early 70's but then I know most of these old tracks were plain old OD.

Also thought about MERCD and doing something from the National Guard since most of these old guys were replaced by then in the regular army. If MERCD, would do the summer verdant (Forest and Light Green).

I want your advice!

1.) Early, solid color OD that shows off details better

2.) 1970's MASSTER that so bright and colorful it would match the plaid bell bottoms and polyester shirts of the '70's.

3. MERCD on an old National Guard tank who is way outdated for it's time but good enough for the Guard.

Here's some pics of the build plus an example of an M60A1 in MASSTER camo.












An example of MASSTER on an M60A1
TankCarl
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2013 - 04:05 AM UTC
When I got to my unit,Co.C,1/37th armor,(Apr '75) we had a mix of plain M-60's and A1's. Most were in a dark OD, but a few were in the MASSTER color scheme.
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2013 - 04:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I've been slowly plugging away at my M60 conversion. It competes for time with all my other summer projects like putting in a pool and all sorts of other outdoor labor.. ughh...

One thing I've noticed with this long build and lots of time in between sessions is that I end up being able to think about it more and end up rebuilding and redoing lots of things. In the end, it makes it better. In fact, these pics of some of the build I've already scrapped and re-did, for example the exhaust grills - I had a spare detail kit, so I didn't like the results of the one pictured so I did a second one.

I've always thought that paint jobs were the most important layer of any build so I've been debating on how to paint this one..

I've always like the gaudy MASSTER camo of the early 70's but then I know most of these old tracks were plain old OD.

Also thought about MERCD and doing something from the National Guard since most of these old guys were replaced by then in the regular army. If MERCD, would do the summer verdant (Forest and Light Green).

I want your advice!

1.) Early, solid color OD that shows off details better

2.) 1970's MASSTER that so bright and colorful it would match the plaid bell bottoms and polyester shirts of the '70's.

3. MERCD on an old National Guard tank who is way outdated for it's time but good enough for the Guard.

Here's some pics of the build plus an example of an M60A1 in MASSTER camo.












An example of MASSTER on an M60A1


Hi, Bruce! If it were my M60, I would do the ORIGINAL OLIVE DRAB FS 34087, depicting it in it's first official camouflage color. I built two of these with the LEGEND M60 Backdate Conversion sets. I did my SECOND M60 in OVERALL FS33531* OVERALL US/USMC DESERT SAND, depicting a local US Army National Guard Vehicle.

*I custom-mixed this color, as this tank's overall sand color was a bit more yellow in tone, as in World War II British Middlestone. TESTORS MODEL MASTER II ENAMEL 2052 ANA 615 RAF Midstone was an almost perfect match. I added just a little bit of MODEL MASTER II FS33531 to the ANA 615, to match the color photo that I took of this vehicle. It's quite possible that this NYNG unit purchased the paint locally.. There was an NYNG M978, painted in FS33531, parked in close proximity to the M60, and the two colors DEFINITELY DID NOT MATCH. I DUNNO... It just goes to show- there's always an exception to the rule...

I built some of my M60A1s, A2s and A3s painted in a variety of the MERCD paint schemes. I also did a few in Overall FS33531 SAND, and overall FS34087 OLIVE DRAB... I'm debating with myself which paint scheme I want to build my JAGUAR M551 Sheridan in. I may even do it up as a "Soviet-ized" NTC "vis-mod" vehicle...
Charlie-66
#186
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2013 - 05:27 AM UTC
Bruce,

the M60A1 in your pcitures looks very simialr to the M60A1's I served on from 82-86 in the 3rd ACR at Fort Bliss. The only real difference I could see would be the green was closer to a Tamiya OD, and we didn't have any markings other than the unit designation and bumper numbers front and rear. I saw this same paint job on M60's of both the 116th and 163rd CAV (NG units) when we used to go to Gowen Field in Idaho to train them. I'll try to scan a couple pictures of those tanks and post them this evening.
BruceJ8365
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2013 - 05:50 AM UTC
[quoteI'm debating with myself which paint scheme I want to build my JAGUAR M551 Sheridan in. I may even do it up as a "Soviet-ized" NTC "vis-mod" vehicle... [/quote]

I've been playing with converting some of my 30 year old models of the Sheridan in the "Vis-Mod" scheme as well... just haven't had the confidence yet! I was inspired by a picture book many year ago from the National Training Center. I can't recall the book, let alone find it, it's been many moves ago so it lives in some dusty box in the back of the basement.

I think I'll take your advice and probably match the OD of the early days.

I'd also love to see the pics from Guy DeYoung if you can find them!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2013 - 10:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

[quoteI'm debating with myself which paint scheme I want to build my JAGUAR M551 Sheridan in. I may even do it up as a "Soviet-ized" NTC "vis-mod" vehicle...


I've been playing with converting some of my 30 year old models of the Sheridan in the "Vis-Mod" scheme as well... just haven't had the confidence yet! I was inspired by a picture book many year ago from the National Training Center. I can't recall the book, let alone find it, it's been many moves ago so it lives in some dusty box in the back of the basement.

I think I'll take your advice and probably match the OD of the early days.

I'd also love to see the pics from Guy DeYoung if you can find them![/quote]

There's always that first big leap when you make up your mind to do a conversion. Try it on some old, beat-up model first- You may surprise yourself!!!

RE: the OD color- you can NEVER go wrong with plain old OD. For some variation, you may want to try post-shading, if you have an airbrush. If you're ready to use Weathering Powders and some "Pin Washes" here and there, so much the better...

The thing to remember with US OD is that even if the entire vehicle is painted in OD, you WILL STILL find that there are subtle variations in tone virtually everywhere you look on that particular vehicle. This is why I DISAGREE with our friends that don't like to build US vehicles because they are too "visually boring". On the contrary- just look at the real thing and you'll be surprised at how an "OVERALL OLIVE DRAB" vehicle ISN'T REALLY SO "DRAB" AFTER ALL...
M4A1Sherman
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Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2013 - 11:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

[quoteI'm debating with myself which paint scheme I want to build my JAGUAR M551 Sheridan in. I may even do it up as a "Soviet-ized" NTC "vis-mod" vehicle...


I've been playing with converting some of my 30 year old models of the Sheridan in the "Vis-Mod" scheme as well... just haven't had the confidence yet! I was inspired by a picture book many year ago from the National Training Center. I can't recall the book, let alone find it, it's been many moves ago so it lives in some dusty box in the back of the basement.

I think I'll take your advice and probably match the OD of the early days.

I'd also love to see the pics from Guy DeYoung if you can find them![/quote]

PS- I ALWAYS have several "lightened" and "darkened" shades of OLIVE DRAB handy when I'm painting my overall OD vehicles- I like to add a little bit of PANZER DARK YELLOW for the lighter shades and a very small amount of BLACK, or DARK GREEN or even DARK BROWN for the darker shades- I do the same for my various items of stowage that I like to add to my vehicles...
Kenaicop
#384
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2013 - 03:55 PM UTC
Hi Guy,

What troop were you in? I was in HHT 1/3 and was the Commo Chief for D Co. 1/3 all between 8/85 and 5/89.



Quoted Text

Bruce,

the M60A1 in your pcitures looks very simialr to the M60A1's I served on from 82-86 in the 3rd ACR at Fort Bliss. The only real difference I could see would be the green was closer to a Tamiya OD, and we didn't have any markings other than the unit designation and bumper numbers front and rear. I saw this same paint job on M60's of both the 116th and 163rd CAV (NG units) when we used to go to Gowen Field in Idaho to train them. I'll try to scan a couple pictures of those tanks and post them this evening.
Manchu34
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2013 - 05:07 PM UTC
In the mid-70's, 75 and 76 to be more accurate, I was assigned to Trp D 5th Cav, 187th Inf Bde (Sep) a USAR unit stationed at Ft. Devens, MA.

Anyways, early 1976, we turned in all our M48A5, M113's, and M106's for M60's, M113A1's and M06A1's. They were all OD. I enlisted the end of 76 and went on active duty. I visited the unit sometime in 77 or 78 and they still were OD.

Personally, I like the OD instead of the MERDEC camo
Charlie-66
#186
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Texas, United States
Joined: May 24, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 07:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Guy,

What troop were you in? I was in HHT 1/3 and was the Commo Chief for D Co. 1/3 all between 8/85 and 5/89.



Quoted Text

Bruce,

the M60A1 in your pcitures looks very simialr to the M60A1's I served on from 82-86 in the 3rd ACR at Fort Bliss. The only real difference I could see would be the green was closer to a Tamiya OD, and we didn't have any markings other than the unit designation and bumper numbers front and rear. I saw this same paint job on M60's of both the 116th and 163rd CAV (NG units) when we used to go to Gowen Field in Idaho to train them. I'll try to scan a couple pictures of those tanks and post them this evening.


Hi James, Brave Rifles! I was in Heavy Company 2/3 ACR from November of 1982 until January of 86 when I reported to Fort Knox for the Advanced course. I was 1st Platoon Leader, 2nd Platoon Leader, and then Company XO; all in H Co.

Charlie-66
#186
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 07:30 AM UTC
I promised Bruce I would post some pictures of M60A1's from 3rd ACR from the 1983 time period and here they are.


this was taken on Range 49 at the Donna Ana Range complex during level 1 gunnery. I'm on the right and the other fella is 1LT Mitch Danner. We had a mix of everything, including different search lights. The closest two tanks have ANVSS 1 search lights, but the 3rd one has the "newer" ANVSS 3.



this is tank bumper number H-12 commanded by SGT Bob "nasty Bob" Nash, with SGT Dement in the loader's hatch. The black and yellow sign in the back was a quick id device. memory fades but I believe the black and yellow denoted second squadron, and the diamond shape denoted our company. The one vertical slash meant 1st PLT.
BruceJ8365
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 08:06 AM UTC
Thanks Guy DeYoung! I see my boots on the side of the turret!

These old tinted photos bring back some memories! Makes me want to find the old box my old photos are stored in.

I'm pretty sure I'll end up doing the old OD on my M60 with all the fading and mismatched colors! I usually paint and shadow and highlight when I do the first camo color, always liked it, then end up applying the other colors that hide all the subtleties in the solid color.

Why was it either freezing rain and sleet or hot baking sun when you had to spend time in and around these things? Every memory involves being drenched in sweat and salt stained BDUs or freezing, painful numbness... Seems I was either constipated and dehydrated or sick with diarrhea.. Hmm.. maybe I don't want to dig out my old pictures! ha ha
casailor
Joined: June 22, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 08:12 AM UTC
One thing to remember with OD is that every vehicle had touch up paint on it from rattle cans and that could vary widely from can to can. We had M151's that looked camoflaged from the twenty or thirty different colors of OD green sprayed on.
Charlie-66
#186
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 10:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Guy DeYoung! I see my boots on the side of the turret!

These old tinted photos bring back some memories! Makes me want to find the old box my old photos are stored in.

I'm pretty sure I'll end up doing the old OD on my M60 with all the fading and mismatched colors! I usually paint and shadow and highlight when I do the first camo color, always liked it, then end up applying the other colors that hide all the subtleties in the solid color.

Why was it either freezing rain and sleet or hot baking sun when you had to spend time in and around these things? Every memory involves being drenched in sweat and salt stained BDUs or freezing, painful numbness... Seems I was either constipated and dehydrated or sick with diarrhea.. Hmm.. maybe I don't want to dig out my old pictures! ha ha


Bruce, you can't have the boots back! In addition to all the discomforts you mentioned, those 1st generation BDU's were awful in the desert. They didn't breathe and unless you had sticks for arms they choked your arms when you rolled up the sleeves. I hated them!
Kenaicop
#384
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 04:19 PM UTC
Veterans! Man those pics bring back memories! I've saved them all and want to build an old M60A1 myself. I have one that I've been holding onto for a few years so I guess I'll be building one now. I'll have to dig up some pics of Dona Ana, I have some around here as well as pics of Ft. Bliss and "Cav Country" Did you guys get the Viet Nam style all green uniforms for summer wear?, They sure turned a lot of heads at the PX! Those were great days man!


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi Guy,

What troop were you in? I was in HHT 1/3 and was the Commo Chief for D Co. 1/3 all between 8/85 and 5/89.



Quoted Text

Bruce,

the M60A1 in your pcitures looks very simialr to the M60A1's I served on from 82-86 in the 3rd ACR at Fort Bliss. The only real difference I could see would be the green was closer to a Tamiya OD, and we didn't have any markings other than the unit designation and bumper numbers front and rear. I saw this same paint job on M60's of both the 116th and 163rd CAV (NG units) when we used to go to Gowen Field in Idaho to train them. I'll try to scan a couple pictures of those tanks and post them this evening.


Hi James, Brave Rifles! I was in Heavy Company 2/3 ACR from November of 1982 until January of 86 when I reported to Fort Knox for the Advanced course. I was 1st Platoon Leader, 2nd Platoon Leader, and then Company XO; all in H Co.

Charlie-66
#186
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 09:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Veterans! Man those pics bring back memories! I've saved them all and want to build an old M60A1 myself. I have one that I've been holding onto for a few years so I guess I'll be building one now. I'll have to dig up some pics of Dona Ana, I have some around here as well as pics of Ft. Bliss and "Cav Country" Did you guys get the Viet Nam style all green uniforms for summer wear?, They sure turned a lot of heads at the PX! Those were great days man!


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi Guy,

What troop were you in? I was in HHT 1/3 and was the Commo Chief for D Co. 1/3 all between 8/85 and 5/89.



Quoted Text

Bruce,

the M60A1 in your pcitures looks very simialr to the M60A1's I served on from 82-86 in the 3rd ACR at Fort Bliss. The only real difference I could see would be the green was closer to a Tamiya OD, and we didn't have any markings other than the unit designation and bumper numbers front and rear. I saw this same paint job on M60's of both the 116th and 163rd CAV (NG units) when we used to go to Gowen Field in Idaho to train them. I'll try to scan a couple pictures of those tanks and post them this evening.


Hi James, Brave Rifles! I was in Heavy Company 2/3 ACR from November of 1982 until January of 86 when I reported to Fort Knox for the Advanced course. I was 1st Platoon Leader, 2nd Platoon Leader, and then Company XO; all in H Co.




James,

I have a ton of pictures from those days. I just need to scan them in. I can send you some if you'd like. We did the get the old Vietnam era jungle fatigues, and I thought they were the most comfortable uniform I ever wore in the Army. I even left my 3rd ACR patches on when I went to Fort Knox enroute to Germany so I could keep wearing them. I got a lot of strange looks at Knox, and was called on it a couple times, but what could anyone really say?
BruceJ8365
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 11:40 AM UTC
I'd love to see some of those old pics!

I worked w the marines and we got old Vietnam style camo ripstop stuff that was a kind of brighter tighter woodland pattern than the army guys had. Was a lot more comfortable!
Kenaicop
#384
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 12:05 PM UTC
Sorry Bruce, didn’t mean to derail your post! Love the tank and it really has inspired me to do more of the M60 series. What did you make the boots on the turret out of?
BruceJ8365
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Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 03:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Sorry Bruce, didn’t mean to derail your post! Love the tank and it really has inspired me to do more of the M60 series. What did you make the boots on the turret out of?


I'd just as well go through some of our old pics as much as anything else! No one else around my house cares to hear all the old stories anymore!

I built rubber boots out of crudely cutting off a couple of figures boots, heating them up an flattening the upper, the heating melted away detail of the boots and left old fashioned rubber overshoes!

My actual rubber boots were ones I "requisitioned" off of another units track that had been sitting in the depot for a while. One was size 13 and the other size 11, at least they were left and right! One of them had an orange sole and I was always afraid they guy I took them from might recognize them!
 _GOTOTOP