I have a few questions about this, if anyone can help.

- I might want to try modeling it, and think that the wheels are American - does anyone recognize them and know if 1:35 versions are available - if multiple sources, what is the best version? Ditto for tires, if "sold separately".

- Can you spot anything else that might have been done by an army motor pool? The "underslung" headlights are likely.

- Were these captured during the war, or is this more likely a post-war adaptation?

- Are there any WW2 Motor Pool veteran's groups where I might be able to find more info?

- It's much less likely that anyone knows this, but I associate the external steering linkage with the earlier L900 truck chassis, while I believe the compound curve rear fenders (Art Deco influence?) came later, and it's relatively rare to see both on the same truck. Anyone know the chronology? This did have a crane mounted, as the stabilizer jacks on either end of the rear wheels are still there.

thanks, Charles

Are you sure the wheel rims are US ? To me they look to be the same as these...


H.P.

Hi Charles,

Looking at the picture in Bart Vanderveen's Fighting vehicles directory WW2, page -316-, you may see a Faun L900D567, showing the same wheels and rims as on your picture.
Maybe an indication that the ones shown in your picture are just German POWW's.

(Prisoner of War Wheels)

As an "Opinion" (mine, for discussion purposes here only),
this 'may' be a post-war manufacture/re-manufacture for the the occupation forces, to US spec., from memory the Germans preferred, cargo or ballast bodies to towing vehicles.

This also looks too 'clean' to be a field mod, though it looks very much like the 10T crane chassis was used, (curved fenders & winch(?) under cab) Wespe do the crane version in various scales.

It was quite common for locally manufactured vehicles to be purchased by the O.F. for err local use, & the Brits even re-started the VW Beetle factory & produced a large number of complete vehicles fron stock found on the site.

Going to be watching this thread very closely.

Could those be rail wheels under the cab and between the rear set of wheels.

OK - let me rephrase that first question. I don't have the book that Paul mentioned, although I do have the photo Henri-Pierre posted and many others - all I could find online. Looking at them last night, some did have wheels that looked like those on the tractor, while others were less certain.

If I model this I'll be using the Wespe 1:35 model, and I know from experience that their stuff tends to be junk - I'm astounded that they just released a 1:16 version of this kit: why would someone want to pay almost a thousand dollars for a crap model, which no doubt uses the same design, just with larger ugly pieces? One major gripe I have is that the hood is a single casting, including poorly represented louvers and steering linkage. Elite Models produces a better version, but I can't see spending some 200 Euros for a kit and then using less than half of it for a project.

Anyway, the road wheels on all of their versions (see photo)don't look anything like those in any of the photos I've seen, so I guess that makes my real question, "Where can I find good quality replacement German wheels-tires that are similar, if not identical, to these?"



Jon - I'm far from an expert, but have to disagree for at least two reasons:

1) I don't know the exact date, but believe they didn't build any of these trucks with the external steering linkage after say 1940.

2) It's clearly a converted crane truck, with the railroad option, and I can't begin to imagine why the US Army would order a new truck with costly options that they had no intent of using.

"This also looks too 'clean' to be a field mod"
I don't know just what you mean by clean in this case, but we need to remember that the crane was removed (vs. major new stuff added), and to my eye the only thing I see added is possibly the headlights. Does anyone know if their style/mounting suggest that it was done during the war? My own take is that the low position wouldn't do much for illuminating the road, but does help keep them out of sight from the air - although, the beam would be another story.

Michael - I think the rear rail wheels are on the bottom level of the stowage rack with the spare tire on top, although I can only think that the US Army kept them there as ballast, vs. any intent to ever again tun it on a railroad.

As far as the front, that disk under the cab is indeed the mounting location for the rail wheel, but it's much too small in diameter to be the whole wheel itself. I'm guessing that the outer "rim" was stored and attached when needed. Notice the relative position of the bolt circle to that on this model.



This image also shows the stabilizer jacks extended, and I must confess the headlights have me wondering if those on the US truck might be original. This model was scratchbuilt by Jorge Lopez - I believe in 2000 - before there were any kits available. He calls it "the most impressive truck of the Second World War". No doubt fighting words for some of you ;-) Article at:

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article/faun-lk5-crane-truck/3427/

I'm not a huge truck afficionado, but I found the original image while I was researching the LK5, and loved the long stretched-out look and the sense of graceful, understated power.

I recently tried contacting the survivor (merged) Faun company with no luck, and there's little info available (anyone have the references that Jorge mentions?), so I'm always happy to learn stuff from other LK5 fans.

As a parting "shot", here's one with a "boom car" serving the Austrian state railways in the 1970's - I believe it's parked in the Vienna main yard.



Charles

Maybe I'm off the mark but I wonder if some AM Sd.Ah 116 trailer wheels would do the job ?



Those above have been released by Armorscale, but others are available...

H.P.

Charles I'm glad you disagree, as a) I'm far from an expert myself & my memory.... something about memory here...
& b) if we keep this thread current, someone who does know will hopefully pitch in & we will all be illuminated!

A Further thought, if this is a railway mount, (missed that completely), there would be no need for a fifth wheel coupling, & the lights would be in the right place for railway position markers?

Thanks, Frenchy - I went with Tank Workshop, as they also supply the front wheels for the Famo, so I get two additional wheels for a somewhat lower price. I also noticed in review photos that there was air (thin spot) between some of the Armorscale wheels and the tires, although they might have corrected that for the production run.

New question. Regarding the stuff behind the cab, it sure looks like a seat on the outside, right behind the driver? It sort of looks like another one on the far side, further back and angled - although, whatever it is also looks like it's too far away, but I don't see any other shadows under the truck.

Any guesses on what's under the low, sloping cover with the louvers? Are there any standard references for what the US did with captured equipment - I sure would like some other views.

The photo is tightly cropped at the back, but it looks to me that the railway buffers are still there - you can make out the tube above the jack, and part of the disk at the end of it.

I guess so



This one was used postwar by the French Army in Algeria.

H.P.

Jon - The basic truck chassis is 900L, and a number of these were fitted with a 9-10 ton crane, as model LK5. I believe most (perhaps not all) of these were built to convert between road and rail service - although I gather it was a lengthy, arduous process to do so; definitely not something that you'd want to do under fire. The one with the striped crane was obviously built with the alternate rail operation capability, although I can't imagine the US motor pool having any interest in that.

Frenchy - and to think that I also have that photo, but was focused on the wheels when I looked at it the last few times. Do you have any thoughts on that tapered hump between the "rear" seats?

I have some new info as well as a new question - but, not one that will ever have a definitive answer.

I think I've determined the answer to this:
Any guesses on what's under the low, sloping cover with the louvers?

Based on the location and the louvers, I'm guessing that it's the generator and associated equipment to power the crane. The housing tends to have varying sizes and shapes on different "models", which makes me think the designers/builders were guessing themselves.

Regarding the external steering linkage, a representative of TadanoFaun (an obvious relatively recent merger) wrote:
"About the steering there have been different gears mounted I think it depends on which steering gear was available in this time. That is why some have the steering in this way and others not."

This is somewhat supported by the varying linkage - sometimes the hood needs to be recessed for it, and other times the steering shaft passes through the hood higher up and the linkage is totally separated from the hood, such as in the photo of L900 Erica that Frenchy posted. I believe none of the kits show the lower linkage or the connecting rod extending to the axle, as seen in that image.

Regarding the fenders: "LK 5 was the chassis for the crane and it has rounded Fenders. The L900 was the Lorry for tank transport this one has straight fenders."

Also, "FAUN factory has been fully detroyed in 1943 after this they produced in an emergency factory in a forest near Lauf an der Pegnitz."

I was also sent an early marketing page for the LK5:



This relates to the new question. Some proto photos show two rear-facing seats behind the cab, while others (and the available kits) indicate stowage containers there - as shown on the Faun marketing sheet. I can only guess that this is an option selected by the customer at the time of the order.

Lastly, while not LK5 related, I found an interesting pre-war photo of a Faun tractor:



Elite Models produces a kit for the Schwerlastfahrzeug
"trailer":



These are more often known as Strassenroller, and were manufactured by Culemeyer. I'm familiar with similar equipment to haul SG wagons on narrow gauge railroads, but these "road wheels" to haul RR wagons is new to me. If anyone has info on what sort of situations this was used in, I'm curious. Unless, this was an early rendition of a container, where it was most economical to transport by train, with local delivery by truck to a customer who lacked direct rail service.

I just found a final image - a Tatra tractor hauling a tank car (with coordinated paint scheme)on a Strassenroller, clearly at a museum somewhere.




Charles

Hi Charles

The last picture in your post has been taken at the Sächsisches Eisenbahnmuseum in Chemnitz, Germany.

Another view of the very same trailer :



Here's another Tatra with a different type type of trailer :



Maybe this one ?



H.P.

Exactly! That was what it was all about, being able to move railroad waggons that "extra mile" to larger customers who didn't have a railroad connection. This type of equipment was also used in Sweden (vagnbjörn in the local language).

This one is really multinational, an M3 tank pulling a steam engine on one of those "strassenroller"
http://maquette-garden.forumactif.com/t12414-idee-de-dio-avec-un-m31

The modern way to solve this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadrailer

/ Robin

Hi, All! Interesting subject! I LOVE softskins! Doesn't TANK WORKSHOP and/or REAL MODELS make these wheels? I thought I may have seen these also made by DEF..? Not sure about any of these that I mentioned in my previous question. I'm thinking of picking up a 1/35 WESPE VOMAG kit- any opinions on this kit?

[/quote] Doesn't TANK WORKSHOP and/or REAL MODELS make these wheels? I thought I may have seen these also made by DEF..? Not sure about any of these that I mentioned in my previous question. I'm thinking of picking up a 1/35 WESPE VOMAG kit- any opinions on this kit? [/quote]

Elite Models have kits for two of the heavy duty Strassenroller trailers:

http://tinyurl.com/lwnffmg

and I've seen photos of the shorter ones, but can't recall the manufacturer or scale.

In general I'd say that Wespe is junk, with poor-quality castings (very low level of detail) and useless instructions. However, if no one else produces the vehicle you want . . . .

Miniatur Models kit #38008 ?

1/35th scale Culemeyer 60t Trailer :



Talking about LK5 pics, did you those in this thread ?

http://www.buntbahn.de/modellbau/viewtopic.php?p=18717

H.P.

Thanks for the LK5 photo link Frenchy. Since I won't be using the Wespe crane in my US tractor conversion, I'll probably do a custom install of it on a heavy duty flat wagon, with a permanently attached boom car, as in those photos - similar to the Austrian version I found earlier.

I expect I'll get the Elite kit at some point when I want to build the LK5 in rail mode with the crane. They declined my request to sell just their hood casting (the Wespe louvers are terrible, so I'll replace them with scratch ones), but I'm checking to see if they'll sell their instruction book (16 pages, German and English), as the childish Wespe drawings are so crude and unhelpful. Not to mention that they completely ignore the crane rigging - I'm glad I don't need to do that for now.

I don't think the Culemeyer trailers in your B&W photo match the ones used in the Faun B&W scene - I don't see any of the round holes on the side of the frame, and the actual support for the rail wheels appears to be different.

One thing I haven't figured out is where the front rail wheels are carried when on the road. The axle and wheel centers are under the truck cab, but there must be rail rims that bolt onto these. The rear ones are always on the bottom of the side storage rack.

1. The disk seen in the photos is just too small a diameter to be the full wheel.
2. There is no sign of the flange on it.
3. The bolt circle in photos with the rail wheel on make it clear that something else has been added to what we see under the cab in road-mode photos.

I'd like to try to get more photos/info on the US captured LK5, if anyone can think of any likely sources. I was wondering if there might be a motor pool veteran's group, or historical site? I'm quite certain that "official" sites will be of no help.

Last night I found this, "The 83 Infantry Division was known as the "rag tag circus" for their use of captured and "acquired" transport in the closing months of the war. This included numerous German trucks and half tracks, painted U.S. gray with stars added, and numerous civilian vehicles." However, I couldn't find any references to the Faun.

I'm also pretty sure that the one in the photo is olive drab and not "U.S. gray". However, I'm wondering at what point "undercarriage black" took over - are there any color photo sources that might indicate this?

I'm not sure what the two commercial kits used for sources, but last night I reread the article on the scratchbuilt model that preceeded them. They probably just copied from that, and this only makes the quality of the scratch model all that more impressive.

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article/faun-lk5-crane-truck/3427/

" . . . I soon discovered that there was not much other useful information available to me. I then found some more pictures and, most importantly, the basic measurements of the Faun L900, which had the same chassis and cab as the LK5. Plans did not exist, but knowing the basic measurements and having two good side view pictures of the LK5, I decided to draw my own."

I'm going to ArmorCon in Connecticut in two months, my first armor/afv meet, and hope to enter this. So, we'll see just how serious I really am. I was also thinking of making a steampunk-inspired dampf-panzer, likely using the Emhar Tadpole kit, with the engine replacing the mortar position in the rear. I suspect that I better limit myself to one project if I actually want to get either built in time. To the workbench - such as it is.

This is discontinued, and not found on the web.

For anyone working in 1:72 and interested in the Colemeyer trailers, Hauler does both the short and long versions - illustrated on Henk's site:

http://henk.fox3000.com/hauler.htm

Actually, I found this impressive photo some time ago, and I just realized that it would be much less expensive to replicate in 1:72.



Looking for other images of the WR-360 C-12

I found this, which could be the engine in the caravan being loaded. The missing hoods on the vehicles in the caravan photo suggest they are operating in a very hot climate, although I should also think that it increases the risk of damage by sand.



I also found this great site, whose owner was also obviously impressed with the heavy truck - tracked vehicle - railray engine caravan, and having excellent info on improving the Trumpeter kit:

http://www.ratomodeling.com/wip/leaving_the_tunnel/

He has a large gallery section, and I particularly like the large and complex dio of a sub overhaul base at a Brazilian show last year.

In fact it looks like you can still find it

http://www.tom-jouets.com/product_info.php?products_id=2069

PS : I had never heard about tom-jouets.com before...

H.P.

Doesn't TANK WORKSHOP and/or REAL MODELS make these wheels? I thought I may have seen these also made by DEF..? Not sure about any of these that I mentioned in my previous question. I'm thinking of picking up a 1/35 WESPE VOMAG kit- any opinions on this kit? [/quote]

Elite Models have kits for two of the heavy duty Strassenroller trailers:

http://tinyurl.com/lwnffmg

and I've seen photos of the shorter ones, but can't recall the manufacturer or scale.

In general I'd say that Wespe is junk, with poor-quality castings (very low level of detail) and useless instructions. However, if no one else produces the vehicle you want . . . .[/quote]

Hi! Thanks for the "heads-up" re: the WESPE Vomag- I'll wait for a better kit... Who knows- maybe TRUMPETER, HOBBY BOSS or some other Oriental company will do it. Seems like the kit manufacturers are coming out with a lot more stuff that's off the beaten path, which is always a good thing!