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Packard Twelve
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2013 - 05:29 AM UTC
ICM has been in touch with Armorama and let us know about two more soft skinned vehicles being readied for the market, with one being the American Packard Twelve (Series 1408).
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
russamotto
Joined: December 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,389 posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2013 - 02:35 PM UTC
I have always liked how the Packard looked. My grandfather had wanted one.
vonHengest
Joined: June 29, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2013 - 04:10 PM UTC
This is what I was hoping the first Packard release would be, very nice!
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Monday, July 29, 2013 - 03:19 AM UTC
pol
Hi, All! Isn't this basically the same Packard kit that ICM did as the "Soviet Leader's Car" kit? The car on the box cover is Black. (Stalin & His Stooges' Car) Only this one's in Maroon on the box cover? I LOVE ALL PACKARDS!!!
Don't mean to go off topic, but wasn't MINIART going to be doing an MB Typ 320? The Typ 320 is a larger car, more in tune with a Field-Grade Officer's or a General's car, as opposed to the MB Typ 170... That MB 770K looks like a really nice car kit, too. I wish ICM would chrome plate some of the parts in their 1/35 car kits, such as the Windshield Frame, Headlight Bezels, Hub Caps, Radiator Grilles, etc...
I think it'd be nice if ICM or MINIART would do General Eisenhower's 1941 Packard, General Patton's 1939 Cadillac, Rommel's Horch Touring Car, "Pips" Priller's BMW 328, and maybe Goering's or Rudolf Hess' MB 500K Sport...
Quoted Text
This is what I was hoping the first Packard release would be, very nice!
Hi, All! Isn't this basically the same Packard kit that ICM did as the "Soviet Leader's Car" kit? The car on the box cover is Black. (Stalin & His Stooges' Car) Only this one's in Maroon on the box cover? I LOVE ALL PACKARDS!!!
Don't mean to go off topic, but wasn't MINIART going to be doing an MB Typ 320? The Typ 320 is a larger car, more in tune with a Field-Grade Officer's or a General's car, as opposed to the MB Typ 170... That MB 770K looks like a really nice car kit, too. I wish ICM would chrome plate some of the parts in their 1/35 car kits, such as the Windshield Frame, Headlight Bezels, Hub Caps, Radiator Grilles, etc... I think it'd be nice if ICM or MINIART would do General Eisenhower's 1941 Packard, General Patton's 1939 Cadillac, Rommel's Horch Touring Car, "Pips" Priller's BMW 328, and maybe Goering's or Rudolf Hess' MB 500K Sport...
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 29, 2013 - 04:41 AM UTC
ICM have added greatly to the soft-skins available for Axis modellers which is great news. I do hope they cover some more Allied subjects as well. Were Packard's exported to England before the war? Might be useful in the Home Front genre.
Al
Al
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 29, 2013 - 12:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
ICM have added greatly to the soft-skins available for Axis modellers which is great news. I do hope they cover some more Allied subjects as well. Were Packard's exported to England before the war? Might be useful in the Home Front genre.
Al
Hi, ALL! Al C- Yes, Packards were exported to the UK before the war, along with many other "High-Dollar" types such as Duesenbergs, Lincolns, Pierce-Arrows, Cadillacs, Chrysler Imperials, etc.
The most expensive "specialty cars" were shipped as a complete "rolling-chassis", with complete steering-gear, radiator and engine assembly. This chassis came with an attached front cowl for referencing the belt-line of the car. The customer, having chosen a pre-approved coach-builder at the time of sale, would have his/her purchase shipped directly to the coach-builder. Upon receipt of the chassis/engine assembly, the coach-builder would then meet with the customer, and a body-style and interior would be selected from numerous catalogs. The coach-builder would form a custom body out of aluminum, stretched over a wooden framework assembly, and then the car would be custom-painted. The customer would be consulted all through the build, and any changes would be made during this time.
This mode of buying an automobile/s was only for the fabulously wealthy, who could afford a Town Car for going to the opera, for the Lady of the House to go shopping in, or other such affairs. Likely, there would also be a Sports Phaeton or Roadster Cabriolet for going to the horse show, fox-hunting or golfing, a Coupe or a Sedan (Saloon in the UK) for business, and a maybe a few "less-expensive cars" for offspring that were old enough to drive... This same process was used with the "more exclusive models of Bentleys, Rolls-Royces, Daimler-Benzes, Horchs, Maybachs, Hispano-Suizas, Bugattis, Delages and Delahayes... It was an interesting era- Some of the finest automobiles ever created were custom-built in the 1920s and 1930s...
The "less-expensive" Packard models, along with the other cars than I mentioned, (except for the Duesenberg) came with their own "factory-built" steel bodies, as did the more "prosaic" medium and lower-priced cars such as Buicks, Oldsmobiles, Pontiacs, Chevrolets, Fords, etc.
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 29, 2013 - 05:38 PM UTC
Thanks for the reply Dennis.
Cheers
Al
Cheers
Al
vonHengest
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 29, 2013 - 05:44 PM UTC
Nice rundown Dennis! The custom coachwork was actually the norm before Henry Ford created the venerable Model T, and was an even more labor intensive process than it was in the 1920s-30s. Cadillac managed to set an excellent standard, which when combined with Henry Ford's mass production techniques, were able to better streamline custom coachwork and quality as well.
Stalin's Packard Twelve was a soft skinned tank so to speak, and had thicker bulletproof windows and frames as well as a larger wheel/tire combination to handle the atrocious strain of the added weight. I don't know how much difference a few inches would make scale-wise, it would probably be pretty negligible unless the model was placed by a standard unarmored version.
For some reason I was thinking that Stalin's Packard Twelve was a 1937, which would make it a Series 1508. The series 1508 saw the introduction of independent front suspension and hydraulic brakes, with power assist on heavier cars. The architecture shortened the wheelbase by a fraction of an inch, which is again negligible in 1/35, but the mechanical components would be noticeably different if ICM's kit was meant to portray this vehicle. I haven't seen the kit in person, so I can't speak to this yet.
The standard unarmored 1408 that is being announced here is what I have been waiting for, which is why I am excited to hear of it's future release. I would also love to see a Cadillac of this vintage, as well as the 1941 Packard that you mentioned.
Stalin's Packard Twelve was a soft skinned tank so to speak, and had thicker bulletproof windows and frames as well as a larger wheel/tire combination to handle the atrocious strain of the added weight. I don't know how much difference a few inches would make scale-wise, it would probably be pretty negligible unless the model was placed by a standard unarmored version.
For some reason I was thinking that Stalin's Packard Twelve was a 1937, which would make it a Series 1508. The series 1508 saw the introduction of independent front suspension and hydraulic brakes, with power assist on heavier cars. The architecture shortened the wheelbase by a fraction of an inch, which is again negligible in 1/35, but the mechanical components would be noticeably different if ICM's kit was meant to portray this vehicle. I haven't seen the kit in person, so I can't speak to this yet.
The standard unarmored 1408 that is being announced here is what I have been waiting for, which is why I am excited to hear of it's future release. I would also love to see a Cadillac of this vintage, as well as the 1941 Packard that you mentioned.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 04:50 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Nice rundown Dennis! The custom coachwork was actually the norm before Henry Ford created the venerable Model T, and was an even more labor intensive process than it was in the 1920s-30s. Cadillac managed to set an excellent standard, which when combined with Henry Ford's mass production techniques, were able to better streamline custom coachwork and quality as well.
Stalin's Packard Twelve was a soft skinned tank so to speak, and had thicker bulletproof windows and frames as well as a larger wheel/tire combination to handle the atrocious strain of the added weight. I don't know how much difference a few inches would make scale-wise, it would probably be pretty negligible unless the model was placed by a standard unarmored version.
For some reason I was thinking that Stalin's Packard Twelve was a 1937, which would make it a Series 1508. The series 1508 saw the introduction of independent front suspension and hydraulic brakes, with power assist on heavier cars. The architecture shortened the wheelbase by a fraction of an inch, which is again negligible in 1/35, but the mechanical components would be noticeably different if ICM's kit was meant to portray this vehicle. I haven't seen the kit in person, so I can't speak to this yet.
The standard unarmored 1408 that is being announced here is what I have been waiting for, which is why I am excited to hear of it's future release. I would also love to see a Cadillac of this vintage, as well as the 1941 Packard that you mentioned.
Hi! I haven't got either kit yet either, so I couldn't make an honest comparison between the two kits. Logically, in the manufacturer's eyes anyway, I wouldn't think that there are very noticeable differences between the two cars, except for the differences that you mentioned. In any case, the new Packard would only require some tooling revisions in the "mostly out-of-sight" suspension areas. As you say, in 1/35, the differences in the dimensions of the body itself would be minimal.
I would guess that the "new" 1408 is possibly (?) a re-box, without the inclusion of figures of Comrade Stalin & His Stooges. I don't remember, if in fact, the "Leader's Packard" kit includes any figures, although I do remember seeing likenesses of Stalin & Co. illustrated on the box top. Maybe someone can shed some light?
PS- I remember seeing a photo of a 1937 Cord 810/812 Convertible in one of my books, posed with some Luftwaffe (?) Officers standing near it... I think it's in my SCHIFFER PUBLISHING book, "Cars of the Wehrmacht"...
Now THAT would make for a beautiful kit, no?M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 05:12 AM UTC
Hi, All! Back again- I just checked the 1/35 ICM 1936 Packard Twelve "Soviet Leader's Car"- It DOES contain 5 figures: Stalin, Molotov, Beria, Khrushchev, and Vlasik- no, not the pickle... 
vonHengest
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 12:55 PM UTC
I'm like you in wondering if they are the same kit, and if so I hope this one is less expensive since it is sans-figures. And darn, I needed a pickle to go with my sandwich...
The Cord does sound very nice. They could make a Luftwaffe and civilian version of it as well, which would probably just be a reboxing. The 810 and 812 are a lot smaller in real life than I thought they would be, the engine bay would present a very interesting modelling challenge in 1/35 with that large Lycoming engine and and all of the details under the hood.
The Cord does sound very nice. They could make a Luftwaffe and civilian version of it as well, which would probably just be a reboxing. The 810 and 812 are a lot smaller in real life than I thought they would be, the engine bay would present a very interesting modelling challenge in 1/35 with that large Lycoming engine and and all of the details under the hood.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 08:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm like you in wondering if they are the same kit, and if so I hope this one is less expensive since it is sans-figures. And darn, I needed a pickle to go with my sandwich...
The Cord does sound very nice. They could make a Luftwaffe and civilian version of it as well, which would probably just be a reboxing. The 810 and 812 are a lot smaller in real life than I thought they would be, the engine bay would present a very interesting modelling challenge in 1/35 with that large Lycoming engine and and all of the details under the hood.
Hi!
That Cord is a reeeeaally rare bird, especially in Europe! I have great doubts about the Luftwaffe ever acquiring any Cords. No Cords were ever sold to ANY military- More than likely, the Cord was a private purchase by one of the Luftwaffe (?) Officers in the photo. At most, only about 1900 1936/37 Cord 810/812s were ever built, (1936-1940) so that's how I'm assuming that the Luftwaffe never ordered any of them. Only about 4400 Cord L-29s (1929-1932) were ever built... I need to find that book- I've just recently moved, and some of my books and models are still at my old house. I need to get back over there and bring some more stuff back here to my new place. I just want to confirm that those are Luftwaffe Officers in that photo of the Cord...
By the way, we have an EXCELLENT classic and antique car museum in Norwich, NY, about 50 miles or so from where I live now. They have a beautiful selection of cars, ranging from the 1890s-early 1960s... Quite a few Cadillacs and Packards, 2 Duesenbergs, probably a half-dozen air-cooled Franklins, and... A 1937 Supercharged Cord 812, PLUS a 1935 Auburn Speedster, also Supercharged!!!
vonHengest
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 08:39 PM UTC
Yes, they were exceptionally rare but we do see more of them than the L-29's. You should do a photo feature for AutoModeler, I'm sure there are plenty of us that would love to see the museum's collection
I'd like to see the photo of the Cord in Luftwaffe service as well. I know that the high ranking German officers indulged in a fondness for high end luxury automobiles, so I wouldn't be surprised if a few made there way to Germany via private sales.
I'd like to see the photo of the Cord in Luftwaffe service as well. I know that the high ranking German officers indulged in a fondness for high end luxury automobiles, so I wouldn't be surprised if a few made there way to Germany via private sales.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 09:07 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Yes, they were exceptionally rare but we do see more of them than the L-29's. You should do a photo feature for AutoModeler, I'm sure there are plenty of us that would love to see the museum's collection
I'd like to see the photo of the Cord in Luftwaffe service as well. I know that the high ranking German officers indulged in a fondness for high end luxury automobiles, so I wouldn't be surprised if a few made there way to Germany via private sales.
Hi!
We probably don't see very many of the L-29s because they were real dogs, mechanically. A lot of them probably wound up in junkyards. The L-29s just barely beat the Ruxtons into production as America's first production front-wheel-drive automobiles. (I LOOOOVE CLASSIC CARS!!!) The 810/812s weren't much better than the L-29s in the trans-axle area- A pity, because they were gorgeous cars...Speaking of American cars as German sales, Hermann Goering had a regular stable of US-built cars. He also owned a DB Mercedes 500K in "Luftwaffe Blue". Rudolf Hess had a 500K in Brown, (The NAZI party color) which he loved to drive. Who wouldn't?
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 10:05 PM UTC
Maybe I'm wrong but isn't there a difference in how the tail lights are positioned on the maroon Packard Twelve and the 'Soviet leaders' boxing? I was looking at the images of the boxarts on ICMs website and to me it seems that the tail lights are positioned differently.
I could be wrong ....
/ Robin
I could be wrong ....
/ Robin
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 - 03:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Maybe I'm wrong but isn't there a difference in how the tail lights are positioned on the maroon Packard Twelve and the 'Soviet leaders' boxing? I was looking at the images of the boxarts on ICMs website and to me it seems that the tail lights are positioned differently.
I could be wrong ....
/ Robin
Hi!
That could very well be... There may even be a few other minimal differences between the 2 kits... vonHengest
Joined: June 29, 2010
KitMaker: 5,854 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 - 09:56 AM UTC
Robin: I wouldn't go off of the box art, but there were certainly many options one could choose for the various components of their Packard such as wheels, bumpers, and interior amenities.
Dennis: Many of L-29's actually had some beautiful custom coachwork that surpassed other contemporary beauties. I think the real issue is that the body design of the 810/812 were so ahead of their time and instantly recognizable that they overshadow the L-29. The transmission was actually a pretty good design, but suffered from silly quirky little problems that could quickly destroy or otherwise render the transaxle at least partially inoperable. A lot of these problems can be easily and inexpensively overcome. There just wasn't enough development time or resources available to invest into working out the bugs. GM did really well in refining a mass production FWD transmission when they came out with their TH425 because of their vast resources. I'm sure Cord could have come through just fine with their design if given the opportunity.
Yes! The 500K is gorgeous, and one of my favorite European classics of all time right next to the Horch 855
Plenty of opportunities for some new softskin kits
Dennis: Many of L-29's actually had some beautiful custom coachwork that surpassed other contemporary beauties. I think the real issue is that the body design of the 810/812 were so ahead of their time and instantly recognizable that they overshadow the L-29. The transmission was actually a pretty good design, but suffered from silly quirky little problems that could quickly destroy or otherwise render the transaxle at least partially inoperable. A lot of these problems can be easily and inexpensively overcome. There just wasn't enough development time or resources available to invest into working out the bugs. GM did really well in refining a mass production FWD transmission when they came out with their TH425 because of their vast resources. I'm sure Cord could have come through just fine with their design if given the opportunity.
Yes! The 500K is gorgeous, and one of my favorite European classics of all time right next to the Horch 855
Plenty of opportunities for some new softskin kits 
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