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Armor/AFV: British Armor
Discuss all types of British Armor of all eras.
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British tank AA machine guns?
Sneakysaurus
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: July 25, 2013
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Posted: Monday, August 05, 2013 - 11:44 PM UTC
As a student of military history and avid modeller of WWII armour, I was very interested to come across the image below on the front cover of Carlo D'Este's book "Decision in Normandy".

On top of the Churchill (VII?) you'll notice some form of machine gun (the book cover has a zoomed in image, this is the full-sized image from the IWM London).

I wasn't aware that the British commonly fitted a top mounted MG to their tanks, and I was even more surprised to find that I did not recognise it! If you look closely you'll see that it looks like a Bren gun, with a different stock and a round magazine. I think the Bren had a round magazine as well as the famous curved one, but I've never seen a stock like that nor does it seem fitted in a way to be effective in the AA role.

Perhaps a lazy/forgetful Tommy left it there?!

My question then, is that a Bren gun or, maybe, a Vickers K or the Indian Bren lookalike? Did the British commonly fit these guns in the field and if so, would a .50, Vickers .303, or a captured weapon be infeasible?

Many Thanks for the info,

Sneaks.

DaveCox
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 - 12:16 AM UTC
I think that what you're looking at here is the Lake(r)man mount for either a Bren or Vickers 'K'. The mount is collapsible and spring-loaded to balance the weight of the MG.

I'm at work at the moment, so can't post pics - google will find plenty for you
Sneakysaurus
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 09:49 PM UTC
Hi Dave, thanks for that, looks like you were bang on about the mount.

The gun still eludes me though, I'm probably mistaken but it just doesn't seem to be a Bren or Vickers K in this picture!

Are their any kits which include that mount?

Thanks.
goldnova72
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 21, 2009
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Posted: Friday, August 16, 2013 - 01:54 AM UTC
Some of the MiniArt Valentines have the Lakerman Bren mount included in the kit .And I seem to recall that Accurate Armour makes / made a resin Lakerman mount.
Sneakysaurus
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, August 16, 2013 - 08:58 AM UTC
Okay, thanks Jim. I'll have to save up but it'll be worth it I hope. Is the Valentine a good kit and does it include a spare mount or a folded/unfolded mount?
ALBOWIE
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 28, 2006
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Posted: Friday, August 16, 2013 - 07:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Dave, thanks for that, looks like you were bang on about the mount.

The gun still eludes me though, I'm probably mistaken but it just doesn't seem to be a Bren or Vickers K in this picture!

Are their any kits which include that mount?

Thanks.



The Churchill was issued with a Bren as an AA gun so it is almost certain that this is bren with the 100rd AA Drum Magazine

Cheers
Al
Sneakysaurus
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, August 16, 2013 - 09:20 PM UTC
Hi Al,

Awesome info! Did those issue Bren's have a different stock?
goldnova72
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 21, 2009
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Posted: Saturday, August 17, 2013 - 02:14 AM UTC
Mini Art has about 5 versions of the Valentine out and I think Bronco or Hobby Boss ( ???) has one as well . Check the Review section to see how accurate the kits are . I know there was some concern about under sized road wheels in the first Mini Art releases , don't remember if it has been fixed in the later kits . From what I remember all the Lakerman mounts where in the upright position , again check the reviews for the sprue pictures and see what is included in each kit . I know there is a AM resin mount out there but can't remember who makes it . Thought it was Resicast , but as their site is under constuction some items are lost in the shuffle , but if I find it I'll let you know.
Sneakysaurus
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Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 07:08 AM UTC
Thanks for all the help guys. I'll keep a look out for those kits!
ALBOWIE
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 09:16 AM UTC
No, standard issue but they would generally remove the AA grip from the lower butt as did most users
Al
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