Hello, I am in the process of starting a Pz. IV kit this week and I have a couple of questions for those of you who have built Dragon kit #6556.

I want to build this kit without the side skirts because I want to be able to see the detail on the tracks and rollers when the build is finished. And when these machines were in use the skirts were removeable by the crew anyway.

To show it on a base without skirts, should I go ahead and attach the skirt brackets and their coresponding parts and just not hang the skirts themselves, or skip that step?

I guess for the vehicle to be as accurate as I can make it without the skirts, I probably should just build the kit like it would have been shipped from the factory and just leave the skirts themselves off, as if the crew had decided to remove them for some reason or another.

Am I correct, or should I skip the brackets to have the complete under carriage exposed?

Thanks for any help, Greg

Hi Greg, you have two options. you can model the pz4 with the hanger brackets on and leave off the skirts or there is an option on the photo etch that gives you small rectangular pieces with bolt holes that you install instead of the hanger brackets since they were bolted on not welded. my guess is that if they had been severely damaged the crew may just remove them completely plus if you did that you could add in the exposed primer areas where they used to be to add some colour and interest to the paint scheme. just my 2 cents here. Im sure someone can post some pics of what im talking about
cheers.
Jon

Hi jon, thanks for your input. I don't want to do this particular vehicle with major damage effects, I read that some of these vehicles were "hybrids" and that could have resulted in a tank that would have been in combat without skirts.

I guess maybe I need to make the decision to either use your suggestion of the skirtless brackets, or for me to install the hangers and leave the skirts off. I guess, in a real life situation, either one of these scenarios could have been likely possible.

Mounted on a base it doesn't matter much but, I personally prefer the skirtless "look" as it allows the under carriage to be shown (I like to see the tracks and rollers) But, in combat the skirts probably would have been a welcome addition to the crew.

I'll think about it some more in the next couple of days, as I get more suggestions. There are just so many different ways to do this, I really need 30 or 40 more kits so that I can build all of the possibilities that I can think of !!!

Greg

I have seen many pictures of Panzer IV Js without side skirts (brackets only). From what I have read, these came off in a variety of manners (one of the more interesting being getting caught on tree branches, especially in France). I am including some links to photos (I hope they will work for you):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-087-3675A-18A,_Russland,_Panzer_IV.jpg

http://www.elccweb.com/ScannedImages/pzIV_J.jpg

http://www.oldhickory30th.com/117th%20July%209th%20St%20Fromond.jpg

Success!

Excellent !! .. Thanks Alex. I was fortunate enough to be able to work around bulldozers, and a wide variety of heavy tracked forestry equipment for a number of years when I was younger. Those heavy tractors went through a heck of beating through the woods and swamps, and got panels and other pieces of sheet metal ripped off by tree branches, and by the operator scrubbing the machine against tree trunks etc.

This type of modeling fits in very close to that type of wear and tear, with the absence of live fire of course. It would be hard to keep a tracked vehicle looking new after it had been run through a swamp, or backed into a brick wall or two.

Thank you very much for the pictures, and where did you find them? Good examples to reference by.

Greg

Another question that I have is this. I read a kit review on this particular Dragon release, and the author advised that the Idlers in step (1) should be built as the optional cast Idler versions and not to attempt the welded "tube" version Idlers with the two spacer rings in them.

Why would he advise against those? Most of the pictures that I have seen of this J series panzer have the "tube type" Idlers with the spacers. Does anyone know why he advises against this "tubed type"

Unknown, since I've seen pictures of J's with both types of idlers, particularly the early and mid versions. For a late PzKpfw IV J, I'd go with the welded idlers because they were faster to produce by then, but remember; with WWII German tanks, there are no hard and fast rules - there's always the exception.

Thanks for the help. I guess that's one of the reasons why they fascinate me so much

From what I've read, the schürzen were initially fixed to the mounts, but they were soon discovered to be prone to snagging onto to vegetation and what-have-you, often damaging the plates and the mounts as well. That lead to the introduction of the triangular mounts. With these, the schürzen were hung in place with loops attached to the back.

One more thing about the side skirts. If you decide to build your model with the mounts removed altogether, there's also the option cutting off the skirt mounts from the fenders and drilling in their mounting holes. Those used by the Finnish army had all the mounts removed very soon after the tanks had arrived.

Naturally, the removal of the mounts on the fenders would have revealed the primer.

Good picture, and thanks.