Hi Guys,

Like the title says how would one backdate a M-109A2 to A1 specs.

I have the AFV new M-109A2 but I want to model a M-109A1.

From looking at the references I have I came up with these differences

Add the protrusions on the lower front hull and add the band (for wading equipment from what I gather) just below the turret as circled in red.


And of course removing the rear turret bin for additional ammo storage.


Is there anything I am missing? parts that need to be added, altered or removed ?

My knowledge is very limited in this field so any input of the experts would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any information anyone can give.

Cheers,

JW

Hi Jan Willem,
ddon`t forget the old style hatch for the panoramic telescope instead of the hood on A2 and a A3 models. It´s simply a ring around the opening with an upward pushing hatch. Should be an easy scratchbuild.

Hans-Hermann

Same as on the M108

http://www.primeportal.net/artillery/cesar_ferreira/m108/

Hi Hans,

Thank you for your input.

I also was a lot of the pictures of M-109A1's with that style of hatch for the panoramic telescope.

I am, however going for a Iraqi model and from the photos I have they are M-109A1's (with the wading gear under the turret and protrusions on the lower front hull) but with the later style hood as shown in this photo.


Maybe it is a A1/A2 mash-up for export M-109's

Hi, Jan-Willem,
The A2 had a different gun barrel. Though I can not recall if there were length differences between the two barrel types. The Dutch artillery used a Dutch developed and produced gun. Furthermore, the Dutch versions never had the wading equipment, not even at the first M109 series. The foreign differences I am not aware of in detail. The A2 version was also an export version, where each customer had his own minor addaptations.
The travel lock differs as well. The rest you already found out.

Which counrty will be the owner of your version?

Succes bij het bouwen!

P.

He Paul,

I want to do an Iraqi M-109 (Sadam area)

Going over the photos I have of Iraqi M-109's and in the areas you mentioned the travel lock and barrel look to be the same as on the A2 (comparing them with the AFV kit that is). It looks like they are a mix of A1's and A2's.

The hull looks to be A1 and the barrel and travel lock A2. Plus the turret doesn't have the extra ammo bin at the rear as on the A2 and it has the later style panoramic telescope hood.

Sjeez, and I thought IDF stuff was difficult to figure out

But thank to your feedback I am starting to get a better picture of what needs to be done.

Thanks guys and keep the suggestions and info coming.

Hi Jan Willem,

according to Janes Interationsl, no M109 A1 were delivered to
Saddams Army.
The gun you refer to might be a capured Iranian M109 A1B. This would explain the ballistic hood for the Pantel. Net research confirms that Iraq uses only captured M109 from Iran and Kuwait.

Hans-Hermann

Hans-Hermann Wenn es könnte hatte ich durch den Computer geküsst

By searching for M-109A1B I got some more images of Iraqi M-109's.

It also gave me some hits on the ones used by the Hellenic Armed Forces and those appear to be the same as the Iraqi. That has given me excellent comparison pictures and to figure our what to change.

Thank you,

JW

Hi Jan Willem,

jederzeit zu diensten! Fortunatly, you can`t send kisses online

So to conclude:

The barrel length looks to be the same on the A2 and A1B.

Leter style panoramic telescope hood.

To turn the AFV M-109A2 into a Iraqi M-109A1B the following has to be done.

Remove the springs from the travel lock, add the metal protrusion on the lower front hull, add the wading parts that are located under the front of the turret and remove the extra ammo bin from the rear of the turret.






A very big thank you to Hans-Hermann for the information provided.

If I missed anything experts please let me know so I can take that into account.

Cheers,

JW

Hi Jan Willem,

after checking the AFV Club sprues, it might be neccesary to rebuild the turret rear wall. M109 A1 had the angled rear wall while the A2 model has a straight portion on which the ammo storage was mounted.
You might check this.

Best
Hans-Hermann

Good catch Hans-Hermann.

Luckily the angle of the rear turret is there and only the section where the rear bin attaches to the turret is squared off so only a little surgery required here.

Did you make the blue prints for there Hans-Hermann?? You really know you stuff.

Thanks again,

JW