I used enamels when I built models as a kid and when I started building models again I continued using enamel(mostly Testors).
It looks like I picked up some acrylic bottles by mistake so I might as well use them. Any special tips for using acrylic? It seems a little thick but I guess I could thin with water.
Also, what the heck is Acryl? Is it just a brand name for acrylics?
Thanks,
Paul
AFV Painting & Weathering
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Acrylic newbie
ptruhe
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 04:01 AM UTC
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 04:27 AM UTC
Heh heh - "Acryl" is probably a cute Marketing Department moniker. It's just acrylics.
I use acrylics exclusively. Love 'em. I stick to Tamiya's products, but Testors is good too. The Testor's product is pretty thin (finer pigments) as it comes in the bottle. I thin my acrylics with Lacquer Thinner for airbrushing because that solvent cuts down the thick Tamiya paint pigment very well. As a rule, I cut Tamiya acrylics at least 50% with Lacquer Thinner - and up to as much as 90% depending on the finish I desire to achieve.
I don't thin the Testors Acryl that much because it doesn't require it - I'd say roughly 25%. It lays down smooth. If you're going to use them in combination, lay the Testors colors over Tamiya colors - Testors will "bite" into the Tamiya color better than the reverse.
I don't thin either with plain water - but some might take that approach...
Gunnie
I use acrylics exclusively. Love 'em. I stick to Tamiya's products, but Testors is good too. The Testor's product is pretty thin (finer pigments) as it comes in the bottle. I thin my acrylics with Lacquer Thinner for airbrushing because that solvent cuts down the thick Tamiya paint pigment very well. As a rule, I cut Tamiya acrylics at least 50% with Lacquer Thinner - and up to as much as 90% depending on the finish I desire to achieve.
I don't thin the Testors Acryl that much because it doesn't require it - I'd say roughly 25%. It lays down smooth. If you're going to use them in combination, lay the Testors colors over Tamiya colors - Testors will "bite" into the Tamiya color better than the reverse.
I don't thin either with plain water - but some might take that approach...
Gunnie
firemann816
Joined: September 14, 2003
KitMaker: 790 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 04:51 AM UTC
Thanks for the post Gunnie
I'm starting to experiment with acrylics as well.
I've always used enamels thus far.
In someones free time, a discussion on the merits of both would be informative.
Why do people prefer acrylics to enamels?
It seems to me enamels stink more but generally are more durable.
I'm starting to experiment with acrylics as well.
I've always used enamels thus far.
In someones free time, a discussion on the merits of both would be informative.
Why do people prefer acrylics to enamels?
It seems to me enamels stink more but generally are more durable.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 05:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Why do people prefer acrylics to enamels?
It seems to me enamels stink more but generally are more durable.
Not sure - I think "toxicity" might come into play. Generally, acrylics don't stink you outta the room when you spray them. If I didn't use Lacquer Thinner as a solvent, I wouldn't smell anything at all.
For a long time, the widest and broadest range of colors could be found in enamels and lacquers like Floquil. Acrylics haven't really caught up - making it necessary to mix to get to the desired shade in a lot of cases.
I prefer acrylics because they're easier to cleanup and don't smell. They aren't as "tough" or "durable" like Floquil or enamel-based paints - but just cause you to modify painting practices and handling of the model afterwards. After so long using them - I'm really comfortable and get consistent results.
Gunnie
slodder
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 05:07 AM UTC
I too use acrylics (Tamiya) almost exclusively on plastic kits. I have used car windshield washer fluid, water, and thinner to thin mine.
I go anywhere between 25% and 50% thinner. I don't have a preference for my thinning agent. Sometimes it's whatever is closest at hand. But I do keep the same agent per project.
I would experiment with each color first before putting it on a project. Even within Tamiya there are some colors you have to thin more than others or some that will NOT go on AT ALL with a brush (White, Flesh, Gun Metal to name three).
I go anywhere between 25% and 50% thinner. I don't have a preference for my thinning agent. Sometimes it's whatever is closest at hand. But I do keep the same agent per project.
I would experiment with each color first before putting it on a project. Even within Tamiya there are some colors you have to thin more than others or some that will NOT go on AT ALL with a brush (White, Flesh, Gun Metal to name three).
matt
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: February 28, 2002
KitMaker: 5,957 posts
Armorama: 2,956 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 05:07 AM UTC
I use whatever i gan get...which is generally Enamels (Model Master) but i do have some Acrylics as well...... It's all a matter of what you can get I guess
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 05:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I would experiment with each color first before putting it on a project. Even within Tamiya there are some colors you have to thin more than others or some that will NOT go on AT ALL with a brush (White, Flesh, Gun Metal to name three).
Dovetailing on what Scott wrote above; there is some measure of comfort and experience that you gain in using Tamiya acrylics. There's a basic finishing rule I adhere too in modeling in general: if you're going to airbrush - airbrush everything; if you're going to handpaint - handpaint everything.
Kinda stumped me at first - but I got used to it. I no longer have a large selection of paint brushes - but have learned how to mask stuff!
Also, take this thought within reason - don't attempt to mask buttons on a 1:35 scale figure...Tamiya acrylics basically blow when it comes to handpainting, unfortunately. And, if you thin them too much - this magnifies the problem. Also, when airbrushing, be careful with your thinning ratio - as you can thin them so much that you experience "creep". "Creep" happens when you thin the paint pigment so much that as it dries, the color "pulls" back away from edges. If you're really good at this, you can make the effect work for you to eliminate drybrushing - but I'd generally not recommend this technique.
I adopted the "airbrush everything rule" because the finish is consistent and superior. But, equally, Tamiya acrylics just don't lay down consistently well when applied by brush.
Gunnie
keenan
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
Armorama: 2,844 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 06:15 AM UTC
I have been using Testors Acryl shot out of a Paasche H for a while. If I use the color cup, I don't have to thin them at all. I agree with Gunnie about the Tamiya being a pain to brush paint. I never could get the hang of thinning them to AB them either which is why I have been using the Acryl. Safety and ease of clean up are the main reasons I use the Acryl. My becnh is in the basement with the water heater (gas) and the furnace (gas). Without a good fume hood I think I could blow the house up shooting enamels around. Then the wife would be really upset...
Shaun
PS Acryls color range has gotten pretty large, too.
Shaun
PS Acryls color range has gotten pretty large, too.
ptruhe
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
Armorama: 1,607 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 06:22 AM UTC
Thanks for all the tips. I'll stick to enamels for brushwork for now and try the acrylics later for airbrushing. I'm lucky my current project is modern British and the camo pattern doesn't have to be precise like modern US.
Thanks,
Paul
Thanks,
Paul
KiwiDave
Joined: January 14, 2003
KitMaker: 248 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 07:35 AM UTC
If you are brush painting I would say stick with enamels. I have used Tamiya acrylics for detailing and washes, but they are virtually impossible to brush over any area as they dont maintain a wet edge.
I have always used Humbrol, though do have some Tamiya enamels. The two mix without any problems, but I do think Humbrol is the better product.
Brush painting I find the sickly smell of acrylics more annoying than enamels. There again I have used enamels for so long I am probably hooked on the fumes!
Regards Dave
I have always used Humbrol, though do have some Tamiya enamels. The two mix without any problems, but I do think Humbrol is the better product.
Brush painting I find the sickly smell of acrylics more annoying than enamels. There again I have used enamels for so long I am probably hooked on the fumes!
Regards Dave
firemann816
Joined: September 14, 2003
KitMaker: 790 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 12:43 PM UTC
Thanks for all the feedback guys
I'm just getting back into this hobby after a long hiatus.
All I ever used were enamels.
I noticed a lot of you hardcore guys were using acrylics.
I wondered if I had missed something
I picked up some Tamiya smoke and used it in a wash.
I liked that it didnt stink real bad, but other than that didnt know what to hink of acrylics.
I spray with pretty good ventilation but havent built my booth yet.
I HOPE that with a sparkless fan or two I can keep spraying enamels because I have used them so long I understand them.
I like the breadth and consistency I've got over my limited experience with the Testors Model Masters line.
Does anyone with more experience have anything about Model Masters that I should know?
Is it a sure ticket to blowing the garage up if I build a booth, even with intrinsically safe fans?
Many thanks for the pointers, fellas.
I'm just getting back into this hobby after a long hiatus.
All I ever used were enamels.
I noticed a lot of you hardcore guys were using acrylics.
I wondered if I had missed something
I picked up some Tamiya smoke and used it in a wash.
I liked that it didnt stink real bad, but other than that didnt know what to hink of acrylics.
I spray with pretty good ventilation but havent built my booth yet.
I HOPE that with a sparkless fan or two I can keep spraying enamels because I have used them so long I understand them.
I like the breadth and consistency I've got over my limited experience with the Testors Model Masters line.
Does anyone with more experience have anything about Model Masters that I should know?
Is it a sure ticket to blowing the garage up if I build a booth, even with intrinsically safe fans?
Many thanks for the pointers, fellas.
4-Eyes71
Joined: December 02, 2003
KitMaker: 424 posts
Armorama: 41 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 02:35 AM UTC
[quote]Heh heh - "Acryl" is probably a cute Marketing Department moniker. It's just acrylics.
I use acrylics exclusively. Love 'em. I stick to Tamiya's products, but Testors is good too. The Testor's product is pretty thin (finer pigments) as it comes in the bottle. I thin my acrylics with Lacquer Thinner for airbrushing because that solvent cuts down the thick Tamiya paint pigment very well. As a rule, I cut Tamiya acrylics at least 50% with Lacquer Thinner - and up to as much as 90% depending on the finish I desire to achieve.
If I may seek clarification, Gunny. When you mention "Lacquer Thinner," are you referring to that stuff sold in hardware stores that has a stronger stench?
I assume (since we're all modelers here) that you may be talking about Gunze Sangyo's Lacquer thinner.
I tried mixing that thinner on my Gunze lacquer's and it messed up the paint that I had to switch thinners and buy a fresh batch.
Ron
I use acrylics exclusively. Love 'em. I stick to Tamiya's products, but Testors is good too. The Testor's product is pretty thin (finer pigments) as it comes in the bottle. I thin my acrylics with Lacquer Thinner for airbrushing because that solvent cuts down the thick Tamiya paint pigment very well. As a rule, I cut Tamiya acrylics at least 50% with Lacquer Thinner - and up to as much as 90% depending on the finish I desire to achieve.
If I may seek clarification, Gunny. When you mention "Lacquer Thinner," are you referring to that stuff sold in hardware stores that has a stronger stench?
I assume (since we're all modelers here) that you may be talking about Gunze Sangyo's Lacquer thinner.
I tried mixing that thinner on my Gunze lacquer's and it messed up the paint that I had to switch thinners and buy a fresh batch.
Ron
4-Eyes71
Joined: December 02, 2003
KitMaker: 424 posts
Armorama: 41 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 02:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I used enamels when I built models as a kid and when I started building models again I continued using enamel(mostly Testors).
It looks like I picked up some acrylic bottles by mistake so I might as well use them. Any special tips for using acrylic? It seems a little thick but I guess I could thin with water.
Tamiya and Gunze Acqueous are tops in the acrylics department. Sorry if I can't make an assessment with the other brands since they are not widely distributed here in my country.
Savvy modelers (and I took their advice as well) prefer mixing alcohol instead of water. It has less surface tension and does not bead up. However, the drawback here is it makes the paints flat.
Another friend of mine suggested trying gin or vodka since they pack a lot of alcohol in them. They help the paint to flow well, especially when you're airbrushing.
As for Aeromaster, they're good for brushing. They hardly leave any brush marks but they're a pain to use with an airbrush unless you thin them very heavily. It is strongly recommended that you thin Aeromaster acrylics with distilled water, not tap water. Or (better if you're using older Badger airbrushes) put a filter in the paint bottle to prevent clogging.
Hope this helps.
Ron
4-Eyes71
Joined: December 02, 2003
KitMaker: 424 posts
Armorama: 41 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 02:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextWhy do people prefer acrylics to enamels?
It seems to me enamels stink more but generally are more durable.
Not sure - I think "toxicity" might come into play. Generally, acrylics don't stink you outta the room when you spray them. If I didn't use Lacquer Thinner as a solvent, I wouldn't smell anything at all.
For a long time, the widest and broadest range of colors could be found in enamels and lacquers like Floquil. Acrylics haven't really caught up - making it necessary to mix to get to the desired shade in a lot of cases.
I prefer acrylics because they're easier to cleanup and don't smell. They aren't as "tough" or "durable" like Floquil or enamel-based paints - but just cause you to modify painting practices and handling of the model afterwards. After so long using them - I'm really comfortable and get consistent results.
Gunnie
I agree, Gunny. Since I have no work room (my bedroom is also my workplace), it's less hazardous to use acrylics, especially since, my 2 nieces are still toddlers and they like to roam around the house and my folks to gripe about the strong stench usually emitted by solvent-based paints.
I learned to live with the draw back that they don't adhere quite well (hence the need to put primer) and they don't give as good a finish as their solvent-based counterparts.
Ron
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 03:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
If I may seek clarification, Gunny. When you mention "Lacquer Thinner," are you referring to that stuff sold in hardware stores that has a stronger stench?
Yes - "Lacquer Thinner" as sold in the Hardware Store and has a stronger stench. I would not misdirect you. I don't shoot Gunze paints, so I couldn't offer much in the way of experience with them...
Gunnie
Tony_Frey
Joined: May 03, 2003
KitMaker: 272 posts
Armorama: 142 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2003 - 01:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Savvy modelers (and I took their advice as well) prefer mixing alcohol instead of water. It has less surface tension and does not bead up. However, the drawback here is it makes the paints flat.
Another friend of mine suggested trying gin or vodka since they pack a lot of alcohol in them. They help the paint to flow well, especially when you're airbrushing.
Hope this helps.
Ron
That's good to know, need to give it a try. Some of the colors I use are just too glossy out of the bottle, and take extra work to get them just right.
4-Eyes71
Joined: December 02, 2003
KitMaker: 424 posts
Armorama: 41 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 01:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
That's good to know, need to give it a try. Some of the colors I use are just too glossy out of the bottle, and take extra work to get them just right.
Here's something else I discovered (I keep learning new things all the time), Denatured alcohol and automotive acrylic thinner will also do the trick (in case you find the model paint's thinners too expensive).
newtothegame
Joined: October 05, 2003
KitMaker: 588 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 03:49 PM UTC
I am new to trying acrylic. When I airbrush it, it sticks to the tip of the needle during cleanup. When I am using enamel I just take some thinner on a q-tip and it easily rubs of, but with the acrylic I try q-tip in water-based airbrush cleaner bearair sent with my new brush and it just doesn't want to come off. I end up scraping it off with my fingertip. Any help??
4-Eyes71
Joined: December 02, 2003
KitMaker: 424 posts
Armorama: 41 posts
Posted: Friday, January 02, 2004 - 01:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I am new to trying acrylic. When I airbrush it, it sticks to the tip of the needle during cleanup. When I am using enamel I just take some thinner on a q-tip and it easily rubs of, but with the acrylic I try q-tip in water-based airbrush cleaner bearair sent with my new brush and it just doesn't want to come off. I end up scraping it off with my fingertip. Any help??
What a/b are you using?
What brand of acrylics are you using?
I don't have that problem. All I do is thin the paint, whether it's enamel or acrlyic to a watery consistency.
When you clean the a/b (disassemble), soak them in lacquer thinner. Just don't put the non-metal parts in though. HTH
newtothegame
Joined: October 05, 2003
KitMaker: 588 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, January 02, 2004 - 05:01 PM UTC
This may be dumb, but any suggestions for soaking the needle? It is quite long and I would hate to leave an open dish of thinner out, or alternatively damage the needle by dropping it in a bottle or something. Thanks. Maybe I should just keep scrubbing more.
Airbrush: Iwata HP-CS
Acrylic: Had the same problem with Testors and Tamiya both thinned with rubbing alcohol
Airbrush: Iwata HP-CS
Acrylic: Had the same problem with Testors and Tamiya both thinned with rubbing alcohol
Plasticbattle
#003
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Friday, January 02, 2004 - 05:26 PM UTC
I have always been a humbrol enamel fan. The only paint I found success with for every job. Brush painting, airbrushing, washes and dry brushing. But in the last year I changed over to Tamiya paints for airbrushing. I tried it out as an experiemnt and liked the results. I use humbrols own enamel thinner and Isopropynol (rubbíng alcohol) for the tamiya to thin. I found the acrylics easier and faster to change over when airbrushing and also easier to clean everything afterwards. I only shoot humbrols now when I need a specific colour.
Everybody really needs to experiment and find out what is best for them. Buy one bottle of a range and try it out. If it works buy a few more.
Everybody really needs to experiment and find out what is best for them. Buy one bottle of a range and try it out. If it works buy a few more.
4-Eyes71
Joined: December 02, 2003
KitMaker: 424 posts
Armorama: 41 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 12:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
This may be dumb, but any suggestions for soaking the needle? It is quite long and I would hate to leave an open dish of thinner out, or alternatively damage the needle by dropping it in a bottle or something. Thanks. Maybe I should just keep scrubbing more.
Airbrush: Iwata HP-CS
Acrylic: Had the same problem with Testors and Tamiya both thinned with rubbing alcohol
It ain't necessary to soak the needle. Swab it with a q-tip or piece of cloth (soaked with thinner). Collect used medicine bottles (syrup) and use it to store thinner (for cleaning/paint removal). You can dip the needle there.
Is your Testors enamel? Don't use alcohol there. Remember the old saying, "oil and water don't mix." You will need to use the proper thinner for enamels. I've tried generic brand paint thinner though and so far, it didn't give me any problems.
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