I'd like to get some input on washes, and panel shading. I have experimented with oil washes and pin washes diluted with white spirits ontop of acrylic paints, after a light coat of Future to protect the acrylics of course, and the results were good.

What I am wondering is this. Has anyone had any experience with the acrylic washes that are offered by Vallejo etc.? I was kinda thinking that using the acrylic washes might eliminate the build up of all the added steps of clear coat that has to be sprayed to protect the soft underlying acrylics and then the final dull coat.

Or is it better to just stick with diluted oil washes, and forget about the acrylic washes? As I said above, the oil washes and pin washes that I have mixed are made with Winsor & Newton oils, and they look pretty darned good to my old eyes but I was just wondering if any of you all thought that the extra coat of Future on top of the base coat, and camo for decal application and oil washing, was a little excessive.

I want to finally end up with a dull/flat and dusty effect. So, Future and Flat Base will take care of that, and I also have AK Dust effects if I choose to go that route.

I hope this makes sense to you, so please don't hesitate to give an opinion.

Thanks,

Greg

I know a lot of modelers swear by their oil wash or oil dot methods, some more vehemently than others. I, on the other hand, have never used oils for this purpose so I can't comment. However, what I will say is that I was amazed...simply AMAZED at how easy and effective the AK Interactive line of enamel washes and effects were to use. The one modification to the process you will have to make is to apply them over a SATIN finish rather than a glossy Future finish.

I found this to be very important as they do not want to adhere correctly to a glossy surface, and they adhere too well to a matte surface, preventing you from moving them around effectively for streaking, rain marks, dust accumulation, etc. But man, when you get them on a satin or semi-gloss finish, they work like magic! They dry in a lot less time than oils without the use of heat lamps or long drying periods...something I understand to be pretty common practice when using the oil technique. Once the AK enamels are dry, they don't require an intervening coat of sealer before you can add the next layer of weathering. I had no problems adding another effect over the previously dried one...it didn't disturb it at all.

Finally, for thinning, they suggest using White Spirit, which is a weak mineral spirit (I got mine at Blick) having much less odor than turpentine and which evaporates in a very reasonable working time. This lends to the relatively fast drying time of the enamels themselves.

I can't say enough good things about the AK line and although I don't have first-hand experience to compare them against traditional oils, I've read enough how-tos on weathering with oils that lead me to believe they have a number of negative attributes that the enamels do not have. I'm not knocking oils...seen plenty of beautiful results using them...I just don't have the patience or the time to use that technique myself.

As to your original question about the acrylic washes, I've used acrylics of all kinds for years in my miniatures painting. I like them for this purpose but nothing I've used has ever been effective at weathering large vehicles. I've not used the new Vallejo line, but I have enough experience with all sorts of acrylic washes, glazes, inks and stains to never want to use them for weathering a tank ever again. Maybe the Vallejo stuff is pure genius...I don't know and I don't care. The AK stuff works so well I don't need to try yet another acrylic product...it simply won't be better.

I say give the AK stuff a try and see what you think.

Cheers.

So, the AK enamel washes would work fine over a light spray of dull coat ie. Future/Tamiya Flat Base? But, that still leaves a pre coat of straight glossy Future for the decals to stick to correct?

And thanks for your input Don,

Greg

Hi Greg,

I would stick with diluted oil washes. the thinned wash flows better than an acrylic wash .
Michael Rinaldi touches on the wash theory in his magazine Tank Art 1 and the workmanship with washes is perfect.
This is a good book to get if you are working with armour subjects .
I personally would suggest to base paint your model in acrylics or enamels but flat clear straight after it.
I have always used Testors Dullcote ever since I started modelling back in 87.
But there are many dullcoats out there .
Satin finish whatever you want .
I used life colour acrylics as the main colours of choice and then flat cleared over the top straight after.
Refer below.

After flat clear , suggest to use the AK wash , like Don suggests .
This will change the appearance and bring it down to a realistic appearance .
Like this

build images here
http://s80.photobucket.com/user/strike_03/library/jagdtiger%20build?sort=3&page=1

Note
once your wash has been laid down give it 24 hours or so and then gloss coat with the future or whatever where the decals are to be placed or coat the whole model .


new photos to be posted

Cheers
Michael

I think the problem with acrylics is you can't rework them when they have dried, and by hot weather it can be very quick, and sometimes there are some smudges. With oil washes you can keep on working for several hours, even days, by adding turpentine.

MIG Enamel washes are awesome over acrylic. Minieral Spirits that are used to clean the enamel washes do not affect the acrylic coat at all.
Same as oil washes over acrylic.
I myself would not use acrylic washes over acrylic coats , they use the same thinning solution.

very nice Jagdtiger Micheal!

Exceptional work Mike, I'll check out the book that you suggested. And thank you all for answering my questions.

Greg

Nice Jagd Michael

Just wondered why you feel the need to protect acrylics with future before applying anything oil/enamel based. Just lay it straight on, unless your diluting with meths or liquid plutonium it should be fine. (Well it always has been in my limited experience)

The main reason to put an acrylic clear coat over the acrylic base colors is that putting an oil wash straight on acrylics will stain the [flat absorbent] acrylic paint and darken and change the base colors, a LOT more than you want.

Perhaps I'm working at a different level here. But I haven't noticed anything too extreme, at least not that I can work with. I started by throwing Future at it all the time mainly because i read it was the thing to do on here, but I've found that mostly i was wasting my time. Just my thoughts

I don't future either, or clear coat, I paint, then decal, then use dull coat to seat up the decals and the paint, and it seems to work good.

I was always taught as SSGT Toms replied, if you use acrylics as your base paints and camo etc. and you don't seal the softer and porous acrylic surface with something like Future that dries hard, the next step of oil based wash will penetrate the softer acrylic material and ruin that soft bottom finish ie. a big mess!

That's just the way I was told to do it, so that's the way that I have always done it, and it works. Using the Vallejo acrylic washes to eliminate the top coat of Future, or varnish was my original question. But I am going to stick with what I know works for me...That is plan "A" oil washes or maybe even AK's enamel washes, over a hard coat of Future. And then add a light dust effect or dullcoat over that.

Question answered, and problem solved.

Thanks

Greg