I know that most Sherman kits come with roadwheels with no detail on the back. Is it possible to slice two roadwheels in half and cement the fronts together to get a true complete roadwheel? What I guess I'm trying to ask is if the rear detail should look like the front detail.
I bring this up because when I was looking for figures for Yodaman, I ran across a plethora of Sherman suspension parts. I'm thinking if I can figure out a way to replicate the front detail and recreate it in a "doughnut" shape, I may be able to insert it into the hollow back portion of the roadwheels. Of course I would have to sacrifice a couple of roadwheels, but I have plenty. I just don't know if the front and rear detail are the same on both sides.
Any help?
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Sherman Road Wheels
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 09:00 PM UTC
Greg
Joined: April 12, 2002
KitMaker: 455 posts
Armorama: 298 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 10:18 PM UTC
I'll wade into this one, Rob. Basically the answer is yes, the back should look the same. Obviously this is so for the spoked wheels. But then it gets a little complicated.
Spoked wheels were made with plates welded to cover the holes so adventurous types wouldn't toss logs and crap in there to jam the suspension. Those plates were oval or square, and welded on the inside surface of the wheel. Scrap .010 styren does the trick.
Later wheels were either cast-steel or pressed-steel ocnstruction and were solid, no spokes just stiffening ribs. The fronts only of these wheels had two little dished areas with grease nipples to lubricate the bearings. So, if you slice the wheels and re-assemble, fill in those dimples.
I'm too lazy to cut and paste; my M4A4 has featureless back roadwheels because they'll hardly be seen. My Fireflies will have Tamiya or Academy wheels. HTH :-)
Greg
Spoked wheels were made with plates welded to cover the holes so adventurous types wouldn't toss logs and crap in there to jam the suspension. Those plates were oval or square, and welded on the inside surface of the wheel. Scrap .010 styren does the trick.
Later wheels were either cast-steel or pressed-steel ocnstruction and were solid, no spokes just stiffening ribs. The fronts only of these wheels had two little dished areas with grease nipples to lubricate the bearings. So, if you slice the wheels and re-assemble, fill in those dimples.
I'm too lazy to cut and paste; my M4A4 has featureless back roadwheels because they'll hardly be seen. My Fireflies will have Tamiya or Academy wheels. HTH :-)
Greg
Greg
Joined: April 12, 2002
KitMaker: 455 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 10:27 PM UTC
Oops! Just re-read my last post on this. The spoked wheels were ORIGINALLY just that. later in production came the spoked wheels with welded cover plates. And ALL variants of the Sherman family are to be seen with mixtures of cast, pressed, and spoked wheels. Usually a matching set per bogie. When one got blown off by a mine, the ordnance guys used what they had to fix it and didn't care about the aesthetics. :-) #:-) :-)
And if you are building an M4A3E2 Jumbo, use only the spoked wheels or covered-spoke types. They were considered to be structurally stronger and better able to cope with the additional weight. Don't forget to sag the volute spring arms, too, it sat lower.
Greg
And if you are building an M4A3E2 Jumbo, use only the spoked wheels or covered-spoke types. They were considered to be structurally stronger and better able to cope with the additional weight. Don't forget to sag the volute spring arms, too, it sat lower.
Greg
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 11:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Oops! Just re-read my last post on this. The spoked wheels were ORIGINALLY just that. later in production came the spoked wheels with welded cover plates. And ALL variants of the Sherman family are to be seen with mixtures of cast, pressed, and spoked wheels. Usually a matching set per bogie. When one got blown off by a mine, the ordnance guys used what they had to fix it and didn't care about the aesthetics. :-) #:-) :-)
And if you are building an M4A3E2 Jumbo, use only the spoked wheels or covered-spoke types. They were considered to be structurally stronger and better able to cope with the additional weight. Don't forget to sag the volute spring arms, too, it sat lower.
Greg
Greg--how did you create the sag effect on the volute springs?
thanks
DJ
Chief
Joined: February 07, 2002
KitMaker: 498 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:20 AM UTC
Rob, I purchased a set of Ft. Duquesne (sp) replacement solid wheels, they are detailed on both sides, the only problem was the center holes needed to be re-drilled.
Greg
Joined: April 12, 2002
KitMaker: 455 posts
Armorama: 298 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:24 AM UTC
Uhhh...well....Ummm...I haven't, DJ. See, I haven't yet built a Jumbo. I was merely speaking from what my photo references tell me it should look like. 
While I have a few months' work of tanks already on the production line, a Jumbo is on the eventual project list. Right now, I think my approach would be to slice into the spring arm pieces (say, an Academy set) at the top, bend it until the angle is shallower, and glue it in place. Now, I mull this over as I write and it occurs to me that the arms might simply break at the bottom if pushed too far. Might be just as good to just slice them off completely and re-position them. To ensure consistency with a dozen parts to be modified, an asembly jig would make a lot of sense. Sorry to give the impression that I had actually accomplished something!
Greg
While I have a few months' work of tanks already on the production line, a Jumbo is on the eventual project list. Right now, I think my approach would be to slice into the spring arm pieces (say, an Academy set) at the top, bend it until the angle is shallower, and glue it in place. Now, I mull this over as I write and it occurs to me that the arms might simply break at the bottom if pushed too far. Might be just as good to just slice them off completely and re-position them. To ensure consistency with a dozen parts to be modified, an asembly jig would make a lot of sense. Sorry to give the impression that I had actually accomplished something!
Greg
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:30 AM UTC
I have a Jumbo that I built when they first hit the scene in the late 80s (88?). I've got it in the rebuild pile. It was originally built straight OOB, but with the talk of the suspension sitting lower (makes sense to me) I will have to try that. I know AFV Club makes the VVSS suspension with the separate arms, I may get a set of those to show the sag.
As far as Sherman road wheels, I wanted something to do with the multitude of extra roadwheels I have. I'm thinking or trying to make the doughnut inserts our of resin, drop a bit of superglue into the rear recess, and voila! doublesided detail.
BTW, I have done the spoke covers for the Italeri roadwheels using sheet styrene. Not hard, but a pain in the butt!
As far as Sherman road wheels, I wanted something to do with the multitude of extra roadwheels I have. I'm thinking or trying to make the doughnut inserts our of resin, drop a bit of superglue into the rear recess, and voila! doublesided detail.
BTW, I have done the spoke covers for the Italeri roadwheels using sheet styrene. Not hard, but a pain in the butt!
slodder
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
Armorama: 7,138 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:42 AM UTC
Sabot
Try looking into Resin after-market pieces. Seems like Ive seen a bunch of Tank work shop and VP wheels on ebay.
If that isn't an option you could cast the front and make two parts and glue them together. That might be easier than trying to cut an existing one in half.
Try looking into Resin after-market pieces. Seems like Ive seen a bunch of Tank work shop and VP wheels on ebay.
If that isn't an option you could cast the front and make two parts and glue them together. That might be easier than trying to cut an existing one in half.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 01:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I've got a set of Verlinden ones, I just want more.Try looking into Resin after-market pieces. Seems like Ive seen a bunch of Tank work shop and VP wheels on ebay.
Quoted Text
This is basically what I think I'm going to do, except instead of casting and entire half, I'm going to try to make an insert that fits into the back of the existing Tamiya road wheel. This is the "doughnut" that I'm talking about, although it will probably look more like a little Lifesaver with the detail on one side. It will cost a couple of donor roadwheels, but I should be able to add them to my Tamiya Shermans quite easily.If that isn't an option you could cast the front and make two parts and glue them together. That might be easier than trying to cut an existing one in half.
generalzod
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 3,172 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 04:17 AM UTC
Rob ,about 2 years ago I tried to do the cutting in 1/2 trick on the DML sherman wheels For some reason or other I got twice the solid spoke road wheels I needed Anyway it was a real pain in the neck trying to cut the wheels exactly in 1/2 They just didn't come out right So I gave up and bought some from Tank Workshop
Now don't quote me on the drill bit sizes,but for Italeri/DML,use a 5/64 bit Tamiya is an oddball size 7/64 too small 1/8 too big
Chad
Now don't quote me on the drill bit sizes,but for Italeri/DML,use a 5/64 bit Tamiya is an oddball size 7/64 too small 1/8 too big
Chad
Ranger74
Joined: April 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,290 posts
Armorama: 658 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 10:40 PM UTC
The best bet I can think of would be to locate the appropriate wheel, either purchase or make as you propose, and duplicate in resin. This would be an excellent first resin project for anyone. One of these days I may try it myself 
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 06:37 AM UTC
Sabot:
I have the same problem: tons of those old Tamiya road wheels with no backs.
Here's a solution I have heard, but not yet tried:
Make a master from an Academy solid spoked wheel -- that way you get the grease fittings on one side that are missing from the Tamiya part. Make this master by spraying the original with a bit of PAM, WD40 or whatever you want to try as a release, then press in a plug of epoxy putty. When the putty starts to firm up, pop it out before it goes completely hard.
When the master is completely hard, test-fit it to the open back of a Tamiya roadwheel. It may require a bit of sanding to get it to slide in, but once it does, you are in business for the next step.
Make a "donut" (or would it be a Cheerio?) of epoxy putty and put it in the open back. Spray a little release on your master, then press it into the open back, embossing the "donut" of putty. It may take a little trial-and-error to get the right amount of putty in the hole, but I have been assured that this technique does work.
I might have to give it a try this weekend. Even if they aren't perfect, they can still be used as parts in dios, etc.
I have the same problem: tons of those old Tamiya road wheels with no backs.
Here's a solution I have heard, but not yet tried:
Make a master from an Academy solid spoked wheel -- that way you get the grease fittings on one side that are missing from the Tamiya part. Make this master by spraying the original with a bit of PAM, WD40 or whatever you want to try as a release, then press in a plug of epoxy putty. When the putty starts to firm up, pop it out before it goes completely hard.
When the master is completely hard, test-fit it to the open back of a Tamiya roadwheel. It may require a bit of sanding to get it to slide in, but once it does, you are in business for the next step.
Make a "donut" (or would it be a Cheerio?) of epoxy putty and put it in the open back. Spray a little release on your master, then press it into the open back, embossing the "donut" of putty. It may take a little trial-and-error to get the right amount of putty in the hole, but I have been assured that this technique does work.
I might have to give it a try this weekend. Even if they aren't perfect, they can still be used as parts in dios, etc.
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 08:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Uhhh...well....Ummm...I haven't, DJ. See, I haven't yet built a Jumbo. I was merely speaking from what my photo references tell me it should look like.
While I have a few months' work of tanks already on the production line, a Jumbo is on the eventual project list. Right now, I think my approach would be to slice into the spring arm pieces (say, an Academy set) at the top, bend it until the angle is shallower, and glue it in place. Now, I mull this over as I write and it occurs to me that the arms might simply break at the bottom if pushed too far. Might be just as good to just slice them off completely and re-position them. To ensure consistency with a dozen parts to be modified, an asembly jig would make a lot of sense. Sorry to give the impression that I had actually accomplished something!
Greg
Greg--I have to tell you the Jumbo is my favorite Sherman. I crafted a 76mm gun for her. Looks super. The 75mm just looked so puny I discarded it. As I write I am looking at the suspension system and thinking "how is he going to do that (sag)?" Amigo, you are definitely traveling at warp speed to undertaking that act of surgery. Let me know how you make out.
DJ
Plasticbattle
#003
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 08:21 AM UTC
Just been reading a review in Missing links "whats new" section. They review new sets of worn/damaged sherman road wheels. I think they are verlinden and have detail on both sides. 
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 09:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
DJ, I ran across an old resin Jumbo turret that I've had for over a decade. I'm sure it originally came with a 76mm resin gun tube.I have to tell you the Jumbo is my favorite Sherman. I crafted a 76mm gun for her. Looks super. The 75mm just looked so puny I discarded it.
Greg
Joined: April 12, 2002
KitMaker: 455 posts
Armorama: 298 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 10:10 PM UTC
Hey, a fair number of Jumbos were upgunned in the field because crews wanted to take on the Tigers. All may have been built with the short 75, but they didn't stay that way. When I budget for this project it will sure get expensive: Old Tamiya donor kit, Tank Workshop hull and turret conversion, Rubio metal barrel, Ft. Duquesne suspension. Drool...
Greg
Greg
shiryon
Joined: April 26, 2002
KitMaker: 876 posts
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Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 10:17 PM UTC
Anybody have an addres for these Ft. Duquesne company
Greg
Joined: April 12, 2002
KitMaker: 455 posts
Armorama: 298 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 11:08 PM UTC
Shiryon, you can get the Ft. Duquesne stuff from VLS Corp in Missouri. The VLS web site is modelmecca.com. Currently they don't have online ordering, so you'll have to jot down the stock numbers and give them a call. I've gotten good service from those folks.
Greg
Greg
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Friday, June 07, 2002 - 12:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey, a fair number of Jumbos were upgunned in the field because crews wanted to take on the Tigers. All may have been built with the short 75, but they didn't stay that way. When I budget for this project it will sure get expensive: Old Tamiya donor kit, Tank Workshop hull and turret conversion, Rubio metal barrel, Ft. Duquesne suspension. Drool...
Greg
Greg---did you see the articles in FSM and MMiR on the Jumbo? If not, I can scan for you. I thought they were interesting because they clearly laid out how to alter the OOB kit to more accurately reflect the real thing. Let me know if you need.
BOL
DJ
Greg
Joined: April 12, 2002
KitMaker: 455 posts
Armorama: 298 posts
Posted: Friday, June 07, 2002 - 12:57 AM UTC
Thanks, DJ; I sent you a PM regarding the articles. So many Shermans, so little time...
Greg
Greg
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