Can anyone give me an accurate number of Centurions (gun tanks - not ARVs, brigelayers, etc) used by the Dutch Army?

Different books tell me different things but the most common numbers seem to be 591 Mk3s supplied under MDAP in 1954/54 + 70 Mk7s in 1957.

Were there any others? One source says 122 Mk5s were sold to the Middle East but no-one else mentions Mk5s so I'm confused.

I assume that the Mk7s had 20-pounders at the time. Apparently these went to Israel. Is that true?

When Leopard 1 came into service, I think some Centurions served alongside until replaced by Leopard 2. But how many served alongside and were all of them upgunned to 105mm?

One other source says 68 x 105mm Cents were bought in the early 70s "bringing the total number of upgunned Centurions to 343". What were these and is this true?

I'm very confused!!

Cheers
Mike

Dear Michel,

Since the weekend is near, some stuff to read:

Between 1953 and 1960 624 Centurions entered the Dutch Koninklijke Landmacht (Army). They replaced the Shermans, who entered the Dutch Army after WW2.
It was decided that about 1970 the Centurion tanks of the tank battalions of the 1 and 4 Division should be replaced. However, since the UK Government annouced to outplace their Centruions sooner, also the production of spare parts would stop, thus forcing the Dutch to look for proper replacement. After 1966, a replacement was needed. A Dutch/Belian committee was formed to evaluate the technical, tactical and financial (yes: at the end of the day, this is for the Dutch the most decisive factor still ) aspects. Just after the committee presented the results, the UK stated that they would keep the Centurions in service for a longer period. Until 1972, the supply of spare parts was guaranteed. The study of the committee made clear that the Centurion could be kept in service until far into the 70-ies.
The defence budget for the replacement went to the mechanisation and motorisation and activation of a 6th brigade.
The Warsaw Pact strength of the T54 and T55 forces, stationed in East Germany, required an upgrade of the Centurion gun, which originated from the last days of WW2. From 275 Centurions, the 20 pounder gun was replaced by a 105 mm gun, together with the installation of a so called ranging machine gun. ( Being a coaxial .50 ) Fire power increased remarkably. With the available 275 Centurions, as well as the new tank type in the 1 and 4 Division, the 5 Division could create 4 tank battalions.
After the upgrade finish in 1967, the Dutch Army started the tests for the replacement for the engines and gear boxes. Due to this so called retrofit programme, the Centurions were able to resist the Warsaw Pact tanks and were almost equal to other tanks in use in the NATO.
Also, this would create time to start the investigations for a new tank type as a replacement at the longer term. The Dutch liked the MBT'70 very much. However, in 1967, it became clear that the MBT'70 took longer development time and would not be available before 1973. The need for a short term tank, already in production and use, finally led to the comparison between the UK Chieftain and the German Leopard. In 1968, the first comparison tests were done. But still, the interest for the MBT'70 remained. In 1968 it became clear that the MBT'70 would not be available before 1975. Next to the fact that the unit price was sky high. On the political level, the Tsjech Crisis created the urgency for new tanks.
On October 15th, 1968, the Dutch Legerraad ( Army Council ) decided to purchase the Leopard. Its manouverability and its weight ( 52 tons against 39,5 ) were more important than the difference in fire power ( 120 mm Ch againt 105 Leo). The tactics on the West German plains could be served with a lghter gun, since the average range was about 2,000 meters. Speed and reliability were preferred above heavier bottom and side armouring and a bigger fire power.Also, the Leo required less maintenance.
In 1970 the first of 468 Leopards entered the 1 Armored Division.
The need for 12 tank battalions in the Dutch Army made clear that another 68 Centurions had to be upgunned to 105 mm. Now, 343 upgunned Centurions drove around. The need was, however, 369. Financial reasons prevented this upgrade of another series of Centurions.
Only one active battalion, 101 Tank Battalion, used the Centurion and acted as so called mother unit for the 4 reserve units ( 1 direct available on short term notice and 3 after a more complex mobilisation procedure ( all this, based on the Dutch Army Reserve systematics ). The lighter AMX13 tanks went to reconnaissance units and anti tank artillery units.
In 1970 the first 468 Leopard's came in use in the Dutch 1 Division. One year later, 3 active tank battalions used the Leo, followed by the related reserve components. In 1973 the 7th tank unit was filled with Leo's. In 1971, also 102 and 103 Reconnaisance Battalion received Leo's to replace the AMX13. In total 407 Leo's were operational.
With 7, in stead of 8, Leo battalions, not four but five battalions needed Centurions. Thus, in the beginning 70-ies, another 68 Centurions received an upgun action.In total, now 343 upgunned Centurions were available.
A need of 369 created a shortage, but other Army projects required the available funding. In 1969, it was decided not to retrofit the Centurions. They kept their original engine type. The 20 ponders were scrapped.
In 1978, all Centurions were replaced by the Leopard 1.
In 1976, 5 Armoured Engineer Compagnies received each 2 Engineer tanks and 2 bridge layers, based on the Leopard frame. 4 Armoured Engineer Compagnies kept their Centurion dozers and bridge layers until 1983. Thereafter they became the Leo versions.
On July 28th 1983, 43 Tank Battalion, stationed in Langemannshof, Germany, part of the 41 Armored Brigade, received their first Leopard 2, thus finalizing a long process of replacing the Centurion and AMX tank area.

Hope you have some more back up now!

Enjoy your modeling weekend

Hi Paul
I didn't expect that! What an amazing answer.

Thank you so much. I will read it carefully and make many notes.

I really appreciate this. Thank you so much
Michael

Hi, Michael,

Feel free to ask more if things are unclear.
I could provide you with some Centurion photos as well via your private email address. Just use my message box.

P.