Sorry but I am really at a loss to identify the many small differences between the various Sherman itterations.

I bought this kit at a hobby show as a bag of parts for a couple a bucks and thought it would a good beginning down the path to Sherman wisdom. Decals, tracks and instructions were missing from the bag.

Can anyone ID the original kit manufacture so I will know what markings to use and how to properly finish it off? Please note I roughed up the casting surfaces using the model glue & stiff brush technique and I added the AFV Club Grisley all metal (plastic) tracks. (Hope that doesn't ruin the build right there.)(Cindy at the Patton Museum was a Canadian built Grisley with all metal tracks and I always had a soft spot in my heart for her!)

I know it's just "an ole' Sherman kit", probably way out of date compaired to the new Tasca offerings but I would like to do it justice and finish it off right.

Help!




As you can see I have not closed up the hull as I still have a ways to go with the exterior details. I have already added a radio set to the turret bustle and may want to add some further interior detail as well.

I think it is a later model Sherman because of the rear bustle on the turret and I think that is the larger 76mm gun with the late mantlet. (Similar to the mantlet on the Pershing) However beyond that I have no idea what M4 model designation to give this one?????

AND it has the "Big Hatch" for the Driver and Co-driver and the loader's escape hatch in the turret.

I will have to wait till I get home to say if it has the double engine doors and what shape the rear armor over the exhausts has.

Italier/Revell M4A1 76(w) I think. Looks good.


Paul

Think Paul is right there, looks like the old M4A1 by Italeri kit, still not a bad kit. You have done a good job on it.

The M4A1 76W was the first Sherman to mount the 76mm gun was used from Normandy on, the M4A3 76W did not start to show up until late 44 I believe.

It's quite a bit different that a Canadian built Grisly, Grisly had the small hatch hull slightly different rear deck and 75mm turret.

I think many of these M4A1 76W used durning operation Cobra where painted OD and Black.

Just remember you can never have to many Shermans

Regards,
Rod

H.P.

Thanks to all for your help.

I gotta learn the differences between the A1 and the A4????

I noticed Rod has the motto "You can never have too many Shermans." - - Since starting this one I have also now started a Firefly, a Tamiya large hatch 75mm, a D-Day small hatch 75mm with wadding trunks and finally a M-51 Super Sherman.

And I still can't tell the early ones apart!

Thanks again for all your help!

Mike

See Mike your hooked now. Couple of good referances books you may want to pick up, The Son of Sherman book by Ampersand Pub. It's a great primer for all things Sherman.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/9505

And if you are at all interested in IDF shermans check out the books and accessories offered by SabingaMartin Publications.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=index&tid=618&rid=1

Regards,
Rod

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4A4_Sherman

This can be a start for you. Just remember... all A1 Shermans have a cast hull and all A4's have the Chrysler Multibank engine, so they have a longer hull.




Jeff

Welcome to the world of the Shermaholic, it is very hard to stop at one. As the others have said it is the old Italeri M4A1 76mm or in COmmonwelath nomenclature Sherman IIa ( II = M4A1 (a) = 76)
The kit is still pretty good and makes up well except for the Barrell (should not have the step)and hard tracks (which are T51 and not T49 as you have used)
To learn a bit about Shermans I cannot go past the Sherman Minutia website:
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/index.html

Of course a copy of Son of Sherman would also help but beware it is a slippery slope!

As for the M4A1 76 the first use was by the US 2nd Armour in Normandy (Cobra breakout). It was used in Italy by the British and south Africans and in Norht West Europe by the Polish 1st AD as well
Cheers
Al

Mike,

The site Al posted is a great site to look araound in, lots of useful information.

And of course there is The Sherman Shop.

http://the-sherman-shop.freeforums.net/

Beat me tot he punch John Sherman Shop has great references and Sherman Modelers to help anyone interested in Shermies.

Thanks guys - just the fact to learn that all cast hulls are A1's is a revelation to me.

I appreciate the help!

Mike

That is, all FULL cast hulls are A1's.




Jeff

The other major difference between the A1 and the E8, was the suspension...

Late-war Shermans (M4E8) had HVSS (horizontal volute spring suspension, whereas other early Mks had the VVSS (vertical volute spring suspension. To see examples of each, cut and paste those terms (one at a time) into your favorite search engine and choose images... You'll see the difference...

No problem knowing the Easy 8's had the later horizontal suspension. Also I knew the composite hulls had a different designation but I can't say that I know what that is?????

Thanks

Does that mean that all welded hulls without the newer suspension are A3's?

What engines do they run? Radial, Multi-bank , GAA's?

Do the A3 marks change with big hatches, small hatches, 2 hatch turrets, different turret bustles?????

Are all A3's multi-bank engines?

Do all E series Shermans have Ford GAA engines?

WOW

Mike,

You really need to look at this link. It will answer a lot of questions, http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/index.html

But a quick run down. Each variant was designated by engine, except for the M4A1 which has the radial engine and cast hull.

M4, M4A1, and M4 Composite had the Continental R-975 radial engine. The M4A1 is more less the “cast” hulled version of the M4.

M4A2 had the GM twin diesel engine.

M4A3 had the Ford GAA V8

M4A4 had the Chrysler multi bank engine.

Like others have said, if your interested in Shermans, I recommends the Son of Sherman book.

The small hatch, large hatch thing corresponds to modifications in production changes. Ie, Large hatch tanks are a later production than the earlier small hatch.

Try this link for nit-picking and rivet-counting info:
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/index.jpg
Sorry, Big John just beat me to it!

If I am correct, the radial engine of the M4/M4A1 was a surplus aircraft engine. Did it need aviation fuel, or did it just run on regular gasoline?

I don't know the answer to the aviation fuel question but I would like to add a point about the radial engine.

It is not really correct to say the radials were "surplus" engines though yes, there were more radials available at the time. At the time the radial was the only engine that could give the Sherman the power to weight ratio it required without resorting to multiple engines. (Dual engines and later the multi-bank.)

Equally true today that the M1A1 (now A3) Abrams uses a jet turbine to produce the power to weight ratio (and speed) the vehicle requires.

Wikipedia says the radial was gasoline powered at around 400hp @ 2400rpm. The multi-bank 470hp @ 2700rpm.

As Michael said, the use of the Wright radial was because it was the only engine of 1941 that could produce enough power in a small enough power pack. Also, it did use 100 octane avgas. However, it was because of this (and the higher compression ratio of the Wright and accompanying lower reliability) that caused the Army to get Continental to redesign the Wright engine as a 81 octane lower compression radial. It still produced the same amount of power, but did so on lower octane gas which was easier to supply and reduced wear and tear on the engine.

Very few Shermans were actually produced with the original Wright, almost all being made with the Continental.

By 1942 the army had asked Ford to lop 4 cylinders off an experimental V12 engine and so the Ford GAA tank engine was born. It made about 500 horsepower and was more reliable and lighter than the Wright/Continental. Putting this into the Sherman resulted in teh M4A3 and the US liked it so much that it became the preferred variant for US forces after about mid 1944.

Regarding suspensions, _any_ Sherman _could_ be an "E8" once it had the HVSS system installed.

And, lastly, the track you have installed is not "Grisly" track. The Canadian built Grizzly used CDP track, like so:



Your tank has T49 track, like this:



:)

Paul

Well Paul, Halloween is coming - it could be 'Grisly'!
I'll be starting a Grizzly soon I hope, since I bought the Panda Plastics tracks AND the Friul ones .

Jim

I guess I had that coming as I will sometimes correct people who "axe me a question" or tell me they "have an ideal".

I'm just glad to be able to say that thanks to involvement with the Patton Museum at Ft. Knox I had the privilege to command a Sherman, fire the 50 cal. off the TC's position, fire the co-ax 30 and work as a loader on the main gun. So I have fond memories of the Grizzly none-the-less.


(Mike Koenig Photo)

That Grizzly CDP track looks very similar to Pz lll/lV track. Are they actually close enough not to matter? As long as the sprocket holes line up with the guide teeth?