I am building the AFV Club Duster and want to add some figures. I have a few old Verlinden sets, including VP321 resting black GI/US Vietnam & VP 420 "Dear John". I also have the VP set #255 Flower Power - this guy has a beard, a head band, and is smoking a pipe or bong or whatever you want to call it. How realistic would this be? I mean, would it be ridiculous to put this guy near the Duster? Is this make-believe or "artistic license"? By the way, these guys are huge, more like 1/32. This may be a moot point since Bravo 6 has a new set of resting GIs that I initially wanted to use together with the VP guys, but I don't want them to be dwarfed by the VP figures.

Well, any help is appreciated. Thanks!
-Felix

There may be some artistic license, when it comes to paraphernalia. However, drug use by enlisted men in Vietnam was quite proliferate.

Thanks, yeah I sorta figured but I didn't want to place a guy smoking drugs in the open if that wasn't realistic. That to me gives it a feeling of those 1980s Verlinden dioramas:) Remember those...I liked them but not sure of the accuracy and all that.

Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe, drug use in country was not that high and grooming standards were adhered to. All the figures you see with beards, long hair, non-standard uniforms, etc. are not realistic. If you are going for a Hollywood recreation dio, go for it. If you want it historically accurate, leave them out.

Those I know of who served said that it was more common to see the standards being held lax, during the conflict.

Gino is 100% correct, I was there in '71, and the drug use was not as rampant as they would have you believe. Also the beard as shown on the Verlinden figure never would have been tolerated. There were some uniform infractions, such as guiys cutting there sleeves, and such, but this was far from the norm.

Good to know. Yes, I am going for a realistic diorama vs a Hollywood one. I kinda figured the VP Flower Power figure was a bit of a stretch. Again, artistic license with little research seemed to rule with that one. I appreciate the feedback.

Marines I know say otherwise. I agree that he would not be smoking, while on duty. Beards, while not common were not unheard of. Oh, I'm not sure what Hollywood movies Gino is referring to. Most I've seen depict clean shaven men.

I spent over a year In-Country, and did not see one service person that had a beard or came close to looking like the figure depicted by Verlinden. I also have a collection of over 3000 reference photos from the Vietnam war, and not one shows a GI with a beard, unless they were in the bush for aperiod of time and had a few days of beard growth.

Hi Felix,

soldiers in camp and off duty are one thing, soldiers out in the field however..!

It is always a little problematic to include "exceptions" in prominent rôles in your diorama.

General Picton wore civilian (including top hat) at the battle of Waterloo, but one should all the same not include generals in muffty in napoleonic dios in common.

Cheers

Romain

I'm only posting what I have been told.

Thats most certainly a pipe.... one containing tobacco, should any superior officer inquire!

I'm sure this video has been seen around here before...

I am thinking of Platoon, Apocalypse Now, The Dear Hunter, Born on the Fourth of July, etc., etc...

It is common for Holywood to portray the US Army in Vietnam as full of dopers and flower-waving peaceniks who were wrongly drafted and are against the establishment, etc., etc... Most of them are thinly vailed anti-war movies.




I agree with Wally and from the research I have done. Those who have been in the military know how it really is/was. Sure there was some drug use and indiscipline in uniforms and grooming, but it was not the norm.

Funny that this particular figure is being "/reviewed" after all of these years! I have always despised this figure because of its 'Hollywood' appearance. Maybe Mr. Verlinden meant to release that figure as a Dutch soldier from the '70s. Now they did have long hair and beards even when wearing their 'dress' uniforms! It would sure make me uneasy to have a soldier that this figure depicts walking point or working on the main rotor of my helicopter! Personally feel this figure and its mold deserve a place in the dustbin. And,yes, I have always thought Verlinden figures closer to 1/32 and difficult to use with many other manufacturers' figures.

My dad was in the US Army in Vietnam from 1966 through 1968 and the majority of the guys he originally went to Vietnam with were regular Army with a few draftees in the mix. Later on as replacements came in, they received more draftees, but military standards were still in place. Occasionally, like during the dry seasons, if they were short on water they may have a few days beard growth out in the jungle, but it would be shaven as soon as they had the water to spare. Hair was usually kept fairly short due to the heat, but in 1968 some of his buddies were sporting sideburns.

Now, later in the war or in units that may have had a disciplinary problem, you might find variations of uniform modifications like cut off sleeves and longer hair, but for the most part, the military still tried to maintain standards. All of the Vietnam vets that I am friends with, Walley included, have all indicated that a Soldierly appearance was usually maintained. There may have been drug use in the rear, but in the field it was a no-no.

I am currently in the Warrior Transition Unit at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and as part of our work therapy program, I work at the Air Defense Artillery Museum. Recently we were a part of a Memorial placement for the Duster, Quad .50, and Searchlight Association (I may have the order mixed up - apologies if I do) and had the opportunity to talk to many of the Duster veterans. Based on their stories and all of the pictures I have seen, the Duster crews maintained military standards of dress and grooming, so if you are depicting a Duster crew, they would be in proper uniform, be shaven, and with a haircut. I have seen a few pictures of them wearing just a flak vest without a shirt so a figure like that would pass.

Cheers,
James

Thanks guys - good to know. I think I will save the Verlinden bong man for a civilian type diorama or vignette. Its nice sculpting but not for me, really. I bought that for a deal years ago, I think at a show. Anyway, I also agree with Gino about Vietnam movies and their Hollywood angle - I'm thinking Oliver Stone for one. But I don't want to go there...

Reading what has been posted has made me can the VP dudes and go for the Bravo 6 ones and perhaps some others. I enjoyed reading the posts - thank you.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most enlisted men who served in Vietnam did not have the strong "anti-war" mentality a lot of pop-culture likes to portray. Most were just serving their country because that what the right thing to do was. I have seen hundreds on photos of grunts in Vietnam, almost all were in "regulation" dress with no facial or long hair. Towards the end of the war more liberties were taken with units in form of necklaces or bandannas, but this was far from the norm.

Truer words...







Of course, the goatee suggest this guy had access to a razor, unlike his pard in the background.



I don't much care for anything Verlinden, but save the figure. There are few absolutes in life, particularly in the military. Just switch branches - the uniform is essentially the same.

Thank you, Robert.

I really don't think there was much argument that there were not instances where beard growth did occur. However, for the type of unit that Felix is going to depict, someone looking like that "Flower Power" Verlinden picture would not be allowed.

Most of the guys that did have beard growth were grunts who were out in the bush for long periods of time. The pictures of Marines that Robert posted are excellent examples of what one could see. Most conventional Army units usually had Sergeant Majors that were sticklers for uniformity, hair cuts, and shaven faces so it is more common when depicting Army personnel (other than a light Infantry unit that was out in the bush for extended periods of time) to have a shaven face and somewhat Soldierly appearance even if dirty from road dust.

Oh yeah, since a Duster crew is being depicted, there are some things that I have learned about uniforms and equipment of Duster crews. Depending on what Corps area they were located in depended on what type of flak jacket they may have been issued. For the units that were stationed in I Corps, many of the crew members were issued the Marine flak jacket since most of their support was provided to the Marines. Let's say you depict a crew from III Corps or one attached to the 9th Infantry Division in the Delta - those guys would be issued the Army version of the flak jacket. Like Robert pointed out, there are few absolutes in life so just because a Duster Crew is Army, don't assume that their equipment was all Army, too.

Hope that info about the Duster Crew uniforms was helpful.

Cheers,
James

I used this same figure in a diorama. I changed the pipe to a spoon, and used an X-Acto knife to shave the beard off. Problem solved!

Interesting thread here concerning one of my pet peeves. There is reality and then there is Hollywood.
I am pretty sure Mr Verlindon was influenced by seeing a few movies about "Nam and came up with this figgie because of it. The moving picture is a powerful tool.
I know Hollywood is usually bothered by facts but here is one of them.
A large large survey was done back in the 70s and 80s by an anthropologist that interviewed Nam vets. He did a comparison study between people that didn't go to Nam and people that did. Turns out,people that went to Nam were generally more successful in life.
How does that fit with the Hollywood stereotype? Heeheehee
Long story but it goes along with what guys are saying on this thread about how it was in Nam. I mean how it was ....ACTUALLY!!
Hope I made my point,I find that hard to do sometimes on line.
J

Once again, guys, thanks. I really do appreciate it, especially the Duster crew information. I had noticed on sites like Prime Portal a mixture of Duster crew uniforms and equipment, etc. It is interesting to know that things varied depending on where the crews were stationed and/or served - never really thought about it in that light.

I have noticed one Duster crew, I believe it was the one with the Grim Reaper painted on the front hatch - very cool from a modeler's point of view and that same decal comes with the AFV kit - (besides the Hulk cartoon character which MecModels produces) this is one of the "coolest," for lack of a better term, military art work I've seen on the Duster - this crew is pictured with guys wearing shades, boony type hats, and loose clothing? Sorry, I'm not an expert, I mean to say no flak jackets and such. Of course, they also are at rest, posing, so this may be the reason they are not wearing vests. This is more or less the look I will go for in my vignette or dio. I think the Bravo6 guys I keep mentioning are close to this.

But there is always an exceptions to every rule. Hope not to get into trouble but to quote from James Arnolds book, The Illustrated History Of Armor, The Viet Nam War, page53/54/55.Often the young draftes put up considerable resistance. Other units took a more accommodating attitude. Thus the staff of the Americal Divisions cavalry squadron referred to one armored group as "the Jesus troop". The troopers flowing hair spilled well down their backs reminding the staff of a group of biblical figures .At base this platoon raised a considerable amount of hell. However, when orders came to take to the field, the Jesus troop became excellent combat soldiers. An officer recalls that whenever the troop roared out of camp on thier way to a new mission, each track sported an American flag. These troopers looked a little different, but thier fighting spirit and patriotisum was comparable to that of any American cavalrymen throughtout history. Just a quote from his book that shows some difference from the earlier spit shine troops tradition to the drafties attitude but which when it came to it did thier job and serriously. As stated by others here, facial hair while in the bush was accepted till the ability to shave was present, but troopers know that hair and wounds don't go well together, infections. For what it's worth.

Hobby Fan has a crew set for the Duster you might be interested in.



Al