Sorry for the double post. Didnt intend for the first attempt to go in the root Armor/AFV dir.

Hey all, I have shelved my half painted Panther Ausf A Late (kit 6358) for about a year now and am wanting to finally finish this thing. Im a bit too fixed on getting the 'perfect' camo job and just need to pick something and get on with it. Id like it to be relatively historically accurate as well. My question is, was there ever any Zimeritted late model A Panthers with an ambush (not the disc type seen on G models) camo scheme? Looking for the sprayed dots version (type 1?) All my research is pointing to NO but a few references say otherwise. Are these inaccurate writings slipping through the cracks or were there a few rare occurrences? I've researched this to death and cant find a definite answer. The Osprey book 'Panther Medium Tank' shows exactly what i'm after but my research says no Zimeritted Panthers had this scheme.

Is this reference accurate? Thanks, everyone!
Steve

Steve;

I am not the Panther expert, but here's my take on this question based on a few reads and a certain number of refs loitering around my shelves (oh, and some interest in the P, as well!):

Probably NO Panther A ever received the "ambush" paint scheme - certainly, as A ceased production at the end of May or maybe first week of June, 1944, and the orders directing assembly plants to apply "ambush schemes" to new tanks only came down in August, 1944, seems none were likely "factory applied". This does not rule out a possible field-shop "mimic" or version of an ambush scheme or a crew paint job.

I suppose that there could have been some such schemes done by the Nibelungen refur plant after AUG 1944, but I have no data or info suggesting that this did happen there, and that would be the likely non-assembly-plant "factory application option" for a salvaged A getting rebuilt and repainted.

The posted artist's rendition looks really cool, but, for historical accuracy, I would look to see an A wearing an ambush coat in a photograph to confirm that this had indeed happened somewhere, sometime. I can offer that I have never noticed one among the many many Panther pics I have - including the scads of coolness provided in Concord Military Series volumns, etc. But, being older and dimmer-of-sight, etc....!

Bob

Paint the 3 color scheme, but without the ambush dots. That way you will be historically accurate.

Steve, the artwork you're looking at was probably done contemporaneously with Osprey's Vanguard 21 on the PzKpfW V Panther, published circa 1980.

At that time, the "ambush" camouflage scheme was thought to be a variant of the field-applied 3-color. This is pretty much how the best references at the time described it (for example, Culver's "Panzer Colors" vols 1-3, ca 1976, '78 and '84).

We now know that this scheme was factory applied to Panther G's for a relatively short period during the Autumn of 1944, and each of the three primary manufacturers used slightly different and unique variations. (The sprayed-dot pattern was used by Daimler Benz.)

Other variations of the factory "ambush" scheme were applied to other AVF types, too (Pz IV's, JagdPz 38's, JagdPz IV's, Sturmtigers, etc). Each of those schemes is also unique to the particular factory that made those vehicles and painted them.

There are a few (very few!) photos of AFV's in what are assumed to be in field-applied "ambush" schemes, but these are very rare, and I don't ever recall seeing any Panther among them. In fact, I can only recall two, off the top of my head, an SdKfz 251 D and a BergePz III, although I think there may be a few SturmPz IV that wore field-applied "ambush" cammo (most of the SturnPz IV's with "ambush" were, I think, factory applied).

At any rate, the others above are right about your Panther A - no documented use of the "ambush" pattern in so far as I know.

HTH,

Thank you all for the help here. You pretty much confirmed what I thought. I couldn't find anything that pointed out that it wasn't used on late Panther As but the lack of any evidence pretty much told the same story. This one illustration was the only thing that kept my dream alive
I couldnt tell if it was intended to be a factory or field applied scheme. As Bob pointed out, it is an illustration and not a photo so my gut said not to trust it. Thanks again for the help on this, guys! Time to get painting!
Steve

Make a diorama with the crew members applying ambush dots with paint brushes over the previously painted 3-color scheme. There's your field-applied pseudo-ambush scheme.

There are a number of photos of a King Tiger being field painted (or repainted) in ambush scheme in the old 'Panzer colors' book.

I like that idea, Biggles. Showing the crew actually painting the vehicle. That would clear up any factory applied scheme issues. What I decided on figure-wise is pretty amusing actually. I got 2 figures from Alpine a couple years ago for this Panther and want to stick to the plan.
http://www.alpineminiatures.com/imagepages/35089.html
If I turn it into a dio I may call it 'big kitty, little puppie'