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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Opinions On A Good Set Of Brushes Please
gkedwards
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Posted: Friday, November 22, 2013 - 06:11 PM UTC
I'm really gettin' fed up with these cheap Wally World paint brushes. It seems that no matter how much I try to take care of them, they just don't hold their shape, and just fall apart. I need some good brushes that will hopefully help me to be better with my modeling projects.

I am within a short driving distance of a "Michaels and a Hobby Lobby" so if someone could please tell me which type and brand of bushes, and what sizes that would cover the majority of what I would need for chipping, detailing, and whatever else I would need to do, I would really appreciate the help.

If there is a set of good brushes that has the most popular sizes then that might be the way to go. But if I only need 2 or 3 sizes of really good sables for fine work, and can just use the 'el cheapo's for washes and effects, then please feel free to let me know which way that you guys have found that works the best for you.

Thanks for any, and all help.
didgeboy
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Posted: Friday, November 22, 2013 - 06:22 PM UTC
I use Loew Cornell comfort brushes, the brown handle taklon bristle. You can find these at Joanne Fabrics for under $3 ea. you'll need to pick throughout them but quite a few will not set you back too much and they hold their shape well and have all sizes.
gkedwards
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Posted: Friday, November 22, 2013 - 06:44 PM UTC
Thanks Damon, what are the sizes that you use for most of your fine detail work? Of course for things like mud effects, and dirt, and such, I would just use the cheap brushes. But for painting finer, more precise items I would want the better brushes. The size and type of hair etc. is the thing that has me stumped.

Thanks again
didgeboy
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Posted: Friday, November 22, 2013 - 06:55 PM UTC
18/0 10/0 5/0 round and spotters. I find the larger rounds are good for oil washes as well as the angled shaders for rain marks. I have at least one of each but more of the fine detail brushes.
SdAufKla
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 02:26 AM UTC
FWIW, I use 10/0 sable liner brushes for my acrylic detail work and also for pin washes mixed up from oil paints.

I use round sables in sizes 00, 0 and 1 for most of my other painting with oils which is mostly figures.

I've been terribly disappointed that I cannot find a local source for quality paint brushes. We have several Michael's and Hobby Lobby outlets, as well as two local hobby shops, and not a one of them carriers really good brushes.

I've given up the hunt, though, and now buy my brushes on-line from Dick Blick or, occasionally, from vendors at larger model and figure shows.

Dick Blick Art Supplies

Personally, I use the Winsor & Newton Series 7 brushes, but there are other quality Kolinsky sable brushes.

If cared for, good brushes will last a long time, so a well cared for $10 or $15 brush that lasts four times as long as a "cheap" $5-6 brush is a good investment in my book.

I clean my brushes (after washing out the paint in the appropriate thinner) using Winsor & Newton brush cleaner-restorer which will remove any dried or set paint deep in the bristles and ferrule. I then condition the bristles using "The Master's Brush Cleaner and Preserver" leaving this material in the bristles and drawing them to a fine point. Before the next use, I "swish" this out in the thinners. This also loads the ferrule with thinners and helps to prevent capillary action from sucking a lot of fresh paint into the ferrule, making the brush easier to clean when done.

Good hunting!
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 04:26 AM UTC
If you are on a budget I picked up a set of Italeri Sable brushes for £10.oo, while these are by no means the best they do perform well and 6 sable brushes in sizes 000, 00, 0, 1, 2, and 3 for £10 is hard to beat. I picked mine up at a show held at Yeovilton during a show but if one person is offering it someone else will be also.
russamotto
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 06:18 AM UTC
Tamiya also offers a nice set of brushes for detail work that should be available in local hobby stores-I found mine at HobbyTown. Hobby Lobby may have them.
Thudius
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 06:39 AM UTC
If you don't mind using ebay, these guys always have some good deals. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/abcbrushes/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= I got an assorted set for a little over £10 (15 US approx), they were factory seconds, but work as advertised and haven't had any issues.

Kimmo
gkedwards
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 06:54 AM UTC
Thanks for all of your input. You fine folks always come through with the best answers and advice for my questions.

I'll take a look at the W&N Series 7 Sables.

The size examples are exactly what I needed Damon, much obliged sir.

I have heard some good things about the Italeri brushes, I will check them out as well as the Tamiya brushes.

And yep,.. Ebay is a possibility too.

Thanks again
gkedwards
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 11:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Personally, I use the Winsor & Newton Series 7 brushes, but there are other quality Kolinsky sable brushes.

If cared for, good brushes will last a long time, so a well cared for $10 or $15 brush that lasts four times as long as a "cheap" $5-6 brush is a good investment in my book.

I clean my brushes (after washing out the paint in the appropriate thinner) using Winsor & Newton brush cleaner-restorer which will remove any dried or set paint deep in the bristles and ferrule. I then condition the bristles using "The Master's Brush Cleaner and Preserver" leaving this material in the bristles and drawing them to a fine point. Before the next use, I "swish" this out in the thinners. This also loads the ferrule with thinners and helps to prevent capillary action from sucking a lot of fresh paint into the ferrule, making the brush easier to clean when done.

Good hunting!



Mike, I went to the Dick Blick site and checked out their stuff. They say that the standard recommendation is acrylic paints should not be used with natural Sabel brushes because of the chemical reactions in the acrylic paint/thinner and the brush hair.

They say that synthetic brushes are best for acrylics, and hair (Sabel) etc. is best for oils...??? ... How does this work?

Greg
spacewolfdad
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 01:09 PM UTC
Hi Greg,

If you want a couple of really good quality brushes in your collection - for those special jobs that require a fine point - look up DaVinci Maestro range, size 0 and 1 is all you need. The points are the finest I have ever seen and I have used a lot of 'quality' brushes in my time. Try one, you won't be disappointed.

All the best,

Paul
SdAufKla
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 01:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Mike, I went to the Dick Blick site and checked out their stuff. They say that the standard recommendation is acrylic paints should not be used with natural Sabel brushes because of the chemical reactions in the acrylic paint/thinner and the brush hair.

They say that synthetic brushes are best for acrylics, and hair (Sabel) etc. is best for oils...??? ... How does this work?

Greg



All I can do is to tell you what works for me (and has worked for me for years).

I don't use rounds for my acrylics, I use sable liners (as explained above). I use sable rounds for oils. However, when I need to use a round for some acrylic purpose, I don't hesitate to use a sable one.

In fact, I don't think I have any synthetic bristle brushes that I use for anything but "junk" painting like bases, heavy weathering, dry pigments, etc - that is jobs that will ruin a good brush. But I also have all sorts of brushes for those kinds of painting jobs - hogs hair brushes, stencil brushes, squirrel hair brushes, disposable acid brushes, tooth brushes, etc.

I use whatever brush will give me the best results for the job at hand.

For painting with acrylics (Vallejo, Citadel, Andreas, etc) I use 10/0 red sable liner brushes. My favorites right now are W&N Series 7. I have used other brands in the past, but still quality sables. For larger areas, a larger size liner brush is better, but for 99% of what I do, the 10/0 is just right.

You have to keep in mind that most art supply dealers are offering advice to people painting on canvas or other large projects. For all I know, what is said on the Blick website about sable and acrylics might be true for painting with tube artist acrylics on canvas. However, Blick also says that you should never use a brush that's been used for oils with acrylics, and I do that all the time (after cleaning and allowing them to dry completely, of course).

I'm happy with my results, and that's the only measure of "what works" that matters to me.

Again, all I can offer is what works for me.
gkedwards
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 02:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Greg,

If you want a couple of really good quality brushes in your collection - for those special jobs that require a fine point - look up DaVinci Maestro range, size 0 and 1 is all you need. The points are the finest I have ever seen and I have used a lot of 'quality' brushes in my time. Try one, you won't be disappointed.

All the best,

Paul



Hi Paul, I looked at some of the DaVinci brushes on Blick's website they are pricey like most all of the really good quality stuff. And as of right now I'm kinda like a little kid in a candy store. There are so many different brands, and types of brushes that I am completely L-O-S-T .. I know that I don't want to spend anymore of my hard earned money on cheap brushes, and I was hoping that maybe I could just find 2 or 3 really good brushes that would cover most anything that I wanted to do.

For example, painting and detailing tools, rusty water streaks, chipping, and eventually detailing figures, (faces, eyes, bootlaces etc.) That is why I was asking about brush sizes, which ones would get me the biggest bang for the buck.

Let me know what you think, I appreciate every reply that I get. I learn something from you folks every time I log onto this site, I appreciate the advice..tell me I'm listening.

Many thanks, Greg
spacewolfdad
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 02:44 PM UTC
Hi Greg,

I know that the DaVinci are at, or near, the top end of the price scale, but they are that good. However if you want to start with small increments in quality check out a brand called Escoda, I use their 1212 range for general work. They are lower priced (usually) than the DaVinci, but very close in quality. You would need their 00, 0 and 1 for a good all round selection of fine brushes, ideal for the fiddly bits like tools and equipment. People have mentioned Windsor and Newton series 7, I used to use them exclusively, but found that some of the quality control wasn't up to snuff as I had some brushes that divided into 3 points! They are a good brush and on a par with the DaVinci in price, but to get, as you say, more bang for your buck the Davinci have the edge. I also use Raphael 8404 series and these are a nice brush too, also probably as expensive as the DaVinci, but really nice brushes. All these are Kolinski sable, which is the best. For some general work and dry-brushing I use Prolene based brushes as they are good for covering areas and excellent for dry brushing, they are also cheaper than sable. Most manufacturers do a synthetic range using prolene or nylon and you can get very cheap sets from remnant book shops that sell artists materials as well, all pretty good for rough work.

Hope this helps, if you need any more info I am only too happy to be of assistance.

All the best,

Paul
spacewolfdad
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 02:55 PM UTC
Hi Greg,

I just checked on the Blick website and the Escoda (you need the round ones) are half the price of the DaVinci (you need the full bodied round ones), so my advice would be try a couple of those first and see if they suit you. Unfortunately they are out of stock so you may have to wait, unless you can get them from another supplier.

All the best,

Paul
gkedwards
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 02:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Mike, I went to the Dick Blick site and checked out their stuff. They say that the standard recommendation is acrylic paints should not be used with natural Sabel brushes because of the chemical reactions in the acrylic paint/thinner and the brush hair.

They say that synthetic brushes are best for acrylics, and hair (Sabel) etc. is best for oils...??? ... How does this work?

Greg



All I can do is to tell you what works for me (and has worked for me for years).

I don't use rounds for my acrylics, I use sable liners (as explained above). I use sable rounds for oils. However, when I need to use a round for some acrylic purpose, I don't hesitate to use a sable one.

In fact, I don't think I have any synthetic bristle brushes that I use for anything but "junk" painting like bases, heavy weathering, dry pigments, etc - that is jobs that will ruin a good brush. But I also have all sorts of brushes for those kinds of painting jobs - hogs hair brushes, stencil brushes, squirrel hair brushes, disposable acid brushes, tooth brushes, etc.

I use whatever brush will give me the best results for the job at hand.

For painting with acrylics (Vallejo, Citadel, Andreas, etc) I use 10/0 red sable liner brushes. My favorites right now are W&N Series 7. I have used other brands in the past, but still quality sables. For larger areas, a larger size liner brush is better, but for 99% of what I do, the 10/0 is just right.

You have to keep in mind that most art supply dealers are offering advice to people painting on canvas or other large projects. For all I know, what is said on the Blick website about sable and acrylics might be true for painting with tube artist acrylics on canvas. However, Blick also says that you should never use a brush that's been used for oils with acrylics, and I do that all the time (after cleaning and allowing them to dry completely, of course).

I'm happy with my results, and that's the only measure of "what works" that matters to me.

Again, all I can offer is what works for me.



That is exactly what I wanted to know, you hit the nail square on the head. There also might be some corporate inventory protection involved in the Blick paragraph that I read,(possibly for warranty issues, neglect or product abuse.) Naturally there are some folks that would use a product for a task that it is not designed for, and call back and say that a new expensive brush just fell apart. That could equal up to big bucks real quick.

I see what you are saying, and I understand what you are telling me. That is why I asked you more in depth about "what is, and what is not" Because you and some of the other guys on this site know what works and what doesn't work. I appreciate your help, and just like I replied to Paul in the above reply, I appreciate the help and advice.

I don't know a lot about detail painting, but I do know that it facinates me, and it's something that I want to get more involved in. I am an old man with a lot of free time on my hands to do what I want to do, .. so why not do it?

You people blow me away with the quality of work that you turn out, you guys are craftsmen and I am tickled to death to be able to pick up tips and tricks from you.

Thanks for your help,
gkedwards
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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 - 03:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Greg,

I know that the DaVinci are at, or near, the top end of the price scale, but they are that good. However if you want to start with small increments in quality check out a brand called Escoda, I use their 1212 range for general work. They are lower priced (usually) than the DaVinci, but very close in quality. You would need their 00, 0 and 1 for a good all round selection of fine brushes, ideal for the fiddly bits like tools and equipment. People have mentioned Windsor and Newton series 7, I used to use them exclusively, but found that some of the quality control wasn't up to snuff as I had some brushes that divided into 3 points! They are a good brush and on a par with the DaVinci in price, but to get, as you say, more bang for your buck the Davinci have the edge. I also use Raphael 8404 series and these are a nice brush too, also probably as expensive as the DaVinci, but really nice brushes. All these are Kolinski sable, which is the best. For some general work and dry-brushing I use Prolene based brushes as they are good for covering areas and excellent for dry brushing, they are also cheaper than sable. Most manufacturers do a synthetic range using prolene or nylon and you can get very cheap sets from remnant book shops that sell artists materials as well, all pretty good for rough work.

Hope this helps, if you need any more info I am only too happy to be of assistance.

All the best,

Paul



Thanks again Paul,

I will check the Escoda series out. And as you said, as of right now pretty much what I am looking for are a few to do the fiddely fine stuff, and possibly a dry brush. I know that for gunk jobs the cheap ones are fine for that, and like Mike Roof says, even a toothbrush has its place from time to time.

I noticed also that most of the series that I was looking at were out of stock for the time being, but that's ok I need to wait until after Christmas before buying anything. I would think that inventory would probably be restocked after the first of the year.

Thanks for the kind help.

Greg Edwards
chumpo
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Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2013 - 05:19 PM UTC
If you lookup on eBay a seller ehobbycraft he has two sets of brushes, red sable , one set has some flat brushes and the other are round details . There are 6 brushes in the set and they go for abouth 15 bucks free shipping . They seem to have all that you are asking for .
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