Hey folks,
it was about time I started posting my own stuff, instead of just commenting on other's.
This will be the place where I'll post pics about my ever lasting project of an Normandy Diorama. It will contain at least two segments:
1. One will show a bridge over a little river being crossed by some Panzergrenadiers and Recon troops (sd.kfz 251 Ausf. D, sd.kfz 243/2 Puma, and possibly a sd.kfz 250/9).
2. The segment, to be placed right behind the bridge, will show a farm with some AT, a briefing scene and some armour assembling and getting ready to attack. It will definetely have: 7,5cm PAK, 1 - 2 Kübels, Tiger I, Panther Ausf. D and lots of figures. It might additionally contain: Panzer IV Ausf. J, Panzer III Ausf. M, Stug III Ausf. G, sd.kfz 7 with 20mm Flak-Vierling, Jagdpanther, 88mm Flak, Kettenkrad and more figures.
If the armour will be much for the second segment, I'll possibly add a third more forresty segment.
The whole thing was designed long ago to serve one purpose: have something to show most of armour models that have been sleeping in some box or remained unbuilt for years. The earlier ones I built OOTB, later ones received more attention. However, I never bothered about which unit decals actually show. I like being accurate, but belonging to a unit or not (and therefore fitting into the Normandy scenario) was something I simply never cared for. I just used the decals from the boxes, that's it. Same goes for the Zimmmerit. Only the Tiger will show molded on Zimmerit. The other vehicles won't because I was afraid to fail at any attempt of doing it old school with some putty, and refused to buy AM products for that matter.
The background story to the Diorama is quite simple: A few weeks into the Normandy invasion, German troops are fighting back with all they have.
Morale is quite good, although losses have been high. Anyway, with shortage of all sorts of equipment and the significant losses, Kampfgruppes are set up all along the frontline. This is a fictitious one of those, which will even show colaboration between Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS, represented at least by the Tiger tank and crew with suitable camo pattern.
The bridge shown, although quite small, is of high tactical value. Some enemy scout units have just been spotted, so that Recon troops and the Panzergrenadiers are being sent across the bridge, while the rest of the Kampfgruppe prepares to mount a full counterattack.
I'll post my work here with a few in progress pics. Most of the models are entirely done or just lack the weathering. The bridge segment is 90 % done. The farm segment doesn't exist yet, however the outer farm walls are almost done. I hope you'll like my owrk, and I'm happy to hear any criticisms, with an exception for unit symbols and verhicle markings as well as Zimmerit. And: I don't own an airbrush, so everything is done with brushes.
Enjoy! (hopefully)
Dioramas
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
Kampfgruppe Bold - Normandie Diorama
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 06:49 AM UTC
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 06:54 AM UTC
Here are the first few pics of one unpainted corner of the outer farm walls:
It was entirely scratchbuilt. The brick parts are made of plastic sheet that came with the brick structure (and colour), bought in model train shop.
Sorry for the bad pics, blame my crappy cell phone
It was entirely scratchbuilt. The brick parts are made of plastic sheet that came with the brick structure (and colour), bought in model train shop.
Sorry for the bad pics, blame my crappy cell phone
dioman13
Joined: August 19, 2007
KitMaker: 2,184 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 08:08 AM UTC
I click on your pic's which sends me to Kitmaker gallery and has you enter your password to enlarge but my password wont work. So the pic's are too small to see.
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 08:48 AM UTC
Hmm, First time I post any pics... When I click on them I get the full version.
Does this work?
https://gallery.kitmaker.net/showphoto.php/photo/405804
Does this work?
https://gallery.kitmaker.net/showphoto.php/photo/405804
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 08:56 AM UTC
Next try:
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 08:58 AM UTC
Please tell me whether these last three pics are fully visible for you
roudeleiw
Joined: January 19, 2004
KitMaker: 2,406 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 09:25 PM UTC
Visible yes, but they are really so bad that it is impossible to comment on them .
I see unpainted wood. I recommand to always do an initial paint (oil wash with Raw Umber for example) before glueing it together. Any wood glue stain will make it impossible now for the paint to hold.
Claude
I see unpainted wood. I recommand to always do an initial paint (oil wash with Raw Umber for example) before glueing it together. Any wood glue stain will make it impossible now for the paint to hold.
Claude
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 10:17 PM UTC
Well, thanks for the comment. First of all, please forgive me for the bad quality of the pics. I really wanted to get this whole thread thing started, and used the pics I had. By now, this particular part has already been painted with water and enamel colours. Unfortunately, due to transfering to another city, my entire modelling stuff and I are having a long distance relationship. Therefore, I can't provide you with better pictures ATM.
This being said, I know the pictures are bad, but you can still recognize something, and scale might also play a role there
As for the unpainted wood: You're right, I used balsa, and did not treat it prior to painting. Anyway, I used water colours, which works like a charm. For the tiny spots where water colour would not work because of glue stains, I used enamel. You really don't see a thing afterwards, especially in that scale. But thanks anyway for your criticism, it's always welcome.
This being said, I know the pictures are bad, but you can still recognize something, and scale might also play a role there
As for the unpainted wood: You're right, I used balsa, and did not treat it prior to painting. Anyway, I used water colours, which works like a charm. For the tiny spots where water colour would not work because of glue stains, I used enamel. You really don't see a thing afterwards, especially in that scale. But thanks anyway for your criticism, it's always welcome.
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 10:25 PM UTC
Hi, Niclas,
Thanks for the announcement of a large and ambitious project.
The photo issue is already worked on, so no comments on that!
About your dio:
Pls., be aware about the following issues:
1. If a unit prepares for an attack, quite some activities will go on. Topping up fuel, ammo, food stuff etc. People will be busy with their personal gear, group gear and their vehicles. Track tension controlled, camo nets secured, freedom of movement of the tank guns etc. is checked.
All this will create quite some movements and, most likely, noise as well, due to interaction between the various crews and their commanders.
2. On a higher ( cie, bat ??? ) level, commanders, nco's and officers, will discuss the last details about departure time, areas to attack/secure etc. Since this is a very sensitive process, this will be done in a spot, whcih is not directly inflicted by the unit's activities.
Why this all?
To point out, with only very possitive intentions, that you should keep this in mind while creating a total set up.
All together, you made me very curious to see how you are going to get this all together in one dio!
Show us more soon (even if unpainted).
A picture of the model boxes, maybe!
Thanks for the announcement of a large and ambitious project.
The photo issue is already worked on, so no comments on that!
About your dio:
Pls., be aware about the following issues:
1. If a unit prepares for an attack, quite some activities will go on. Topping up fuel, ammo, food stuff etc. People will be busy with their personal gear, group gear and their vehicles. Track tension controlled, camo nets secured, freedom of movement of the tank guns etc. is checked.
All this will create quite some movements and, most likely, noise as well, due to interaction between the various crews and their commanders.
2. On a higher ( cie, bat ??? ) level, commanders, nco's and officers, will discuss the last details about departure time, areas to attack/secure etc. Since this is a very sensitive process, this will be done in a spot, whcih is not directly inflicted by the unit's activities.
Why this all?
To point out, with only very possitive intentions, that you should keep this in mind while creating a total set up.
All together, you made me very curious to see how you are going to get this all together in one dio!
Show us more soon (even if unpainted).
A picture of the model boxes, maybe!
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 10:51 PM UTC
Thanks for all that input, greatly appreciated. I've been thinking (dreaming) of that project for roughly 10 years now (no kidding). It is the only "big" project I intend to do. The layout of the scene has mostly been decided. What's left is the positioning of vehicles and crews. I'll try to keep in mind the points you mentioned. The whole thing is supposed to look like the enemy scouts stirred up a hornets' nest, leading to a rather spontaneous counter attack... Therefore, no major logistical activities, just some refreshing of ammo stocks.
As for the pics of model boxes, I'll work on that at a later stage I'll also work on a basic sketch of the layout.
As for the pics of model boxes, I'll work on that at a later stage
I'll also work on a basic sketch of the layout.1stjaeger
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 12:46 AM UTC
Hi Nicolas!
just my 2 cents worth:
be extremely cautious with choosing the correct architecture. Such a big project with years of anticipative thoughts and dreams (nightmares??
) deserves a couple of hours of research in the web and maybe a visit to the MK35 site. No matter whether you like them or not, they know their stuff....simply for being locals!!Hope that reaches you in time!
Cheers
Romain
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 01:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Nicolas!
just my 2 cents worth:
be extremely cautious with choosing the correct architecture. Such a big project with years of anticipative thoughts and dreams (nightmares??
Hope that reaches you in time!
Cheers
Romain
Fully correct, Romain,
Though the pictures are quite vague (your ACER is the most detailled item!), I have the impression that the roofing is made of woorden shingles, which are not too common at all in western France.........
Have a closer look at:
https://www.google.com/search?q=roofing+normandy&espv=210&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=G3ygUqTiBanO0QWXkIGICA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1680&bih=934
This might help to avoid an unendless feeling of frustration after you have invested quite some time and effort in the basic set up.
Looking forward to see more (but not from your laptop!
) jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 03:22 AM UTC
I am waiting to see how you handle a project with this much ambition. Should be impressive to say the least. I know your aim is to "use up" the finished pieces in your built collection. Just be aware that artistic license would be the only way to get away with some of those vehicles being together.
J
J
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 03:27 AM UTC
Hello guys,
many thanks for your comments on architecture, especially the roofing. I did indeed look into that, and chose wooden shingles for different reasons:
1. Couldn't find anything to accurately reproduce basic tiles. Of course, you can find molded plastic sheets, but for the "Mini"-Barn and the shed, I needed that old rural worn-out look. To achieve that look, the materials used simply cannot be perfectly aligned and regular like the items I found. I didn't feel comfortable with warping the plastic, and I would have had to reshape all the borders of the roof ("undercut", if you like), to avoid that unrealistic massive look.
2. I consider THE typical roofings for Normandie to be:
a) thatched roofs
b) slated roofs
With b), I had the same issue than with normal tiles.
I'm planning to use a thatched roof for the main building, which is under construction. Thatched roofs are easy to do using old brushes/ hemp. The house will have a timber-frame construction in the style typicle for Normandie, and should look similar to these:
http://www.france-voyage.com/photos/visionner-parc-naturel-regional-boucles-seine-normande-21996.htm
or
http://megalo.pagesperso-orange.fr/stgeorges/chaume.jpg
3. Wooden shingles were a very common roofing in France in ancient times, including in Normandie. You find remainders of that tradition on well maintained ancient buildings:
This is an example from the entirely wooden church in Honfleur
http://geneblog.over-blog.net/article-connaissez-vous-honfleur--43547571.html
An another building on Mont St. Michel
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24055007@N06/6080583254
Of course, wooden shingles are not being used anymore today (unless for historical buildings). But, being half French myself and having travelled around quite a bit, I know that you can find them here and there everywhere in France, including in Western France.
4. Combining the above, I concluded that wooden shingles would not be inappropriate. After all, it's just an unimportant shed, self made by that farmer's grandfather or so in the late 19th century... Also, regarding style, the main building will clearly settle the whole thing in Normandie, as will the cow paddock and the apple tress...
Of course, you couldn't know what the whole display will show.
In a later post today, I shall upload a sketch of the basic lay out.
many thanks for your comments on architecture, especially the roofing. I did indeed look into that, and chose wooden shingles for different reasons:
1. Couldn't find anything to accurately reproduce basic tiles. Of course, you can find molded plastic sheets, but for the "Mini"-Barn and the shed, I needed that old rural worn-out look. To achieve that look, the materials used simply cannot be perfectly aligned and regular like the items I found. I didn't feel comfortable with warping the plastic, and I would have had to reshape all the borders of the roof ("undercut", if you like), to avoid that unrealistic massive look.
2. I consider THE typical roofings for Normandie to be:
a) thatched roofs
b) slated roofs
With b), I had the same issue than with normal tiles.
I'm planning to use a thatched roof for the main building, which is under construction. Thatched roofs are easy to do using old brushes/ hemp. The house will have a timber-frame construction in the style typicle for Normandie, and should look similar to these:
http://www.france-voyage.com/photos/visionner-parc-naturel-regional-boucles-seine-normande-21996.htm
or
http://megalo.pagesperso-orange.fr/stgeorges/chaume.jpg
3. Wooden shingles were a very common roofing in France in ancient times, including in Normandie. You find remainders of that tradition on well maintained ancient buildings:
This is an example from the entirely wooden church in Honfleur
http://geneblog.over-blog.net/article-connaissez-vous-honfleur--43547571.html
An another building on Mont St. Michel
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24055007@N06/6080583254
Of course, wooden shingles are not being used anymore today (unless for historical buildings). But, being half French myself and having travelled around quite a bit, I know that you can find them here and there everywhere in France, including in Western France.
4. Combining the above, I concluded that wooden shingles would not be inappropriate. After all, it's just an unimportant shed, self made by that farmer's grandfather or so in the late 19th century... Also, regarding style, the main building will clearly settle the whole thing in Normandie, as will the cow paddock and the apple tress...
Of course, you couldn't know what the whole display will show.
In a later post today, I shall upload a sketch of the basic lay out.
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 03:43 AM UTC
Ah yes,I do love my buildings from the middle ages. Thanks for the links buddy!
J
J
1stjaeger
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 03:45 AM UTC
Hi Nicolas,
while the sites about tourism may often contain true treasures, they also demand caution as to their Interpretation.
I usually prefer to go to 1944 pics just to make sure, like these:
https://www.google.at/search?q=normandie+1944&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=SJ6gUsuzLYqitAaUjYC4CA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1344&bih=740
I can't actually understand where the (modelling) difference would be between wooden and slate shingles, They look very similar indeed. Paint them slate grey...et voila!
You cannot take wooden shingles just because they used to be there sometime in the middle ages. I'm sure however there might have been the odd one here and there.
It is important you manage to convey the "Normandie atmosphere" (if you see what I mean). Building a dio like that is very much like building a scene for a movie.
If the viewer has the "impression" he actually "is" in that particular location (he buys it so to speak), then you are there!
Cheers
Romain
while the sites about tourism may often contain true treasures, they also demand caution as to their Interpretation.
I usually prefer to go to 1944 pics just to make sure, like these:
https://www.google.at/search?q=normandie+1944&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=SJ6gUsuzLYqitAaUjYC4CA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1344&bih=740
I can't actually understand where the (modelling) difference would be between wooden and slate shingles, They look very similar indeed. Paint them slate grey...et voila!
You cannot take wooden shingles just because they used to be there sometime in the middle ages. I'm sure however there might have been the odd one here and there.
It is important you manage to convey the "Normandie atmosphere" (if you see what I mean). Building a dio like that is very much like building a scene for a movie.
If the viewer has the "impression" he actually "is" in that particular location (he buys it so to speak), then you are there!
Cheers
Romain
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 03:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I am waiting to see how you handle a project with this much ambition. Should be impressive to say the least. I know your aim is to "use up" the finished pieces in your built collection. Just be aware that artistic license would be the only way to get away with some of those vehicles being together.
J
Really? I didn't go in too deep with that, but I thought the vehicle types all saw action during Normandie. WHich ones would I have to leave out in your opinion?
1stjaeger
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 03:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI am waiting to see how you handle a project with this much ambition. Should be impressive to say the least. I know your aim is to "use up" the finished pieces in your built collection. Just be aware that artistic license would be the only way to get away with some of those vehicles being together.
J
Really? I didn't go in too deep with that, but I thought the vehicle types all saw action during Normandie. WHich ones would I have to leave out in your opinion?
well, many did not! Some were no longer fit for front line duty (crusaders except AA conversions f.ex.), others simply were not yet invented/delivered (Archer SP-gun f.ex.). Not all the Sherman variants would be possible of course, and so forth.
Cheers
Romain
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 04:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
well, many did not! Some were no longer fit for front line duty (crusaders except AA conversions f.ex.), others simply were not yet invented/delivered (Archer SP-gun f.ex.). Not all the Sherman variants would be possible of course, and so forth.
Cheers
Romain
Granted, but which of the ones I posted?
"1. One will show a bridge over a little river being crossed by some Panzergrenadiers and Recon troops (sd.kfz 251 Ausf. D, sd.kfz 243/2 Puma, and possibly a sd.kfz 250/9).
2. ... It will definetely have: 7,5cm PAK, 1 - 2 Kübels, Tiger I, Panther Ausf. D and lots of figures. It might additionally contain: Panzer IV Ausf. J, Panzer III Ausf. M, Stug III Ausf. G, sd.kfz 7 with 20mm Flak-Vierling, Jagdpanther, 88mm Flak, Kettenkrad and more figures."
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 04:02 AM UTC
Hi Romain,
I fully agree on the principle, but what exactly do you mean? The link you posted doesn't show that much rural stuff...
I fully agree on the principle, but what exactly do you mean? The link you posted doesn't show that much rural stuff...
Quoted Text
Hi Nicolas,
while the sites about tourism may often contain true treasures, they also demand caution as to their Interpretation.
I usually prefer to go to 1944 pics just to make sure, like these:
https://www.google.at/search?q=normandie+1944&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=SJ6gUsuzLYqitAaUjYC4CA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1344&bih=740
Bonaparte84
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 04:14 AM UTC
Anyway, to (hopefully) see where I'm going with this, here's a rough sketch done in a few minutes. Vehicles are approximately 50 % too big. Their position is not yet determined (except for the PAK and the sd.kfz 251, and most probably the Puma).
And here are the last two reinforcements my little Kampfgruppe received. I've only done some gluing so far, and have very mixed feelings so far. I'll give some more comments if anyone is interested in these particular models.
Will try and get some proper pictures of my interpretation of these guys and post them later.
It is the model from ACE.
And here are the last two reinforcements my little Kampfgruppe received. I've only done some gluing so far, and have very mixed feelings so far. I'll give some more comments if anyone is interested in these particular models.
Will try and get some proper pictures of my interpretation of these guys and post them later.
It is the model from ACE.
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 06:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
well, many did not! Some were no longer fit for front line duty (crusaders except AA conversions f.ex.), others simply were not yet invented/delivered (Archer SP-gun f.ex.). Not all the Sherman variants would be possible of course, and so forth.
Cheers
Romain
Granted, but which of the ones I posted?
"1. One will show a bridge over a little river being crossed by some Panzergrenadiers and Recon troops (sd.kfz 251 Ausf. D, sd.kfz 243/2 Puma, and possibly a sd.kfz 250/9).
2. ... It will definetely have: 7,5cm PAK, 1 - 2 Kübels, Tiger I, Panther Ausf. D and lots of figures. It might additionally contain: Panzer IV Ausf. J, Panzer III Ausf. M, Stug III Ausf. G, sd.kfz 7 with 20mm Flak-Vierling, Jagdpanther, 88mm Flak, Kettenkrad and more figures."
Yes,all of those types did see service in Normandy except the PzIIIM,which you could get away with if you made it a befelswagen or beobachtungswagen. The problem I see is that all of those types in the same group would be unlikely. Maybe it would work right at the end of Normandy during the last part of the encirclement when all of the units got mixed up and severely depleted?
J
1stjaeger
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 07:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
well, many did not! Some were no longer fit for front line duty (crusaders except AA conversions f.ex.), others simply were not yet invented/delivered (Archer SP-gun f.ex.). Not all the Sherman variants would be possible of course, and so forth.
Cheers
Romain
Granted, but which of the ones I posted?
"1. One will show a bridge over a little river being crossed by some Panzergrenadiers and Recon troops (sd.kfz 251 Ausf. D, sd.kfz 243/2 Puma, and possibly a sd.kfz 250/9).
2. ... It will definetely have: 7,5cm PAK, 1 - 2 Kübels, Tiger I, Panther Ausf. D and lots of figures. It might additionally contain: Panzer IV Ausf. J, Panzer III Ausf. M, Stug III Ausf. G, sd.kfz 7 with 20mm Flak-Vierling, Jagdpanther, 88mm Flak, Kettenkrad and more figures."
you are right...and I get me coat!
got the "side" thing completely wrong (surely because Normandie means british equipment to me and Leo)!
Jerry has pointed out the PzIII as being the only possible "problem".
Jagdpanthers were rare anyway. As far as I recall, only the 2nd Coy (PzJgdAbt 654) was in Normandie and was virtually destroyed by the end of July. None made it back over the Seine.
Cheers
Romain
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