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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Iwata Brush Choice?
callum111
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 12:02 AM UTC
Hi everyone,
Hope this thread not only helps me but many others struggling with decisions of the endless airbrushes out there.
I will keep it to the point..


- I have a badger 100 for base coating etc
- mostly an axis armor modeler so you know the camouflage types I need to achieve
- In need of a good detail airbrush for achieving the fine lines ranging from squiggles to tri-ambush camos
- price is not an issue for me unless it is over 320 or so US which I doubt we would be hitting that range
- only have a year - 2 years experience of airbrushing
- Would like your opinion on the airbrushes that I have narrowed down from endless reading on this painting forum; much appreciated thanks by the way!

Choices
- Iwata HP-CS Eclipse
- Iwata HP-B plus (high performance range)
- Iwata HP-C plus (high performance range)
- Iwata HP-BH HI-Line
- Iwata HP-CH HI-Line

My own preference from these is the HP-BH as it has both the paint flow and air flow adjuster and I would enjoy having a fixed line while airbrushing German camo schemes.

However You can see out of 5 choices there's only 3 models as I'm unsure whether the larger 7-9ml cup of the C models would be more appropriate or not and whether the .2 or .3 needle would be better? I use vallejo and tamiya paints.

Thank you very much!
Callum
nzgunnie
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 12:01 PM UTC
I have a HP-C Plus. The .3mm needle copes with Tamiya and Vallejo just fine, and can paint fine lines.

I use a cheap MAC valve/quick disconnect fitting that allows easy adjustment of the air, like the MAC valve on the hi line brushes, but it was only a few dollars and achieves the same result.

Be mindful that smaller needle does not always equate to 'better' airbrush for modelling, since model paints have fairly course pigments in comparison to inks, so getting a really fine needle can be counter productive and lead to lots of problems with paint clogging the fluid nozzle. As it is with the .3mm and some paints (particularly some metallic paints) the .3mm has clogging issues. I'd be wary of going much smaller for acrylics.
panzer_fan
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 01:02 PM UTC
I second Phil's advice. The difference between .3 and .2 mm at nozzle means 1/10th of 1 millimetre. If you are going to use the airbrush exclusively for painting camouflage patterns, some weathering, accentuating lines etc. then I would strongly suggest whatever airbrush suits you in the .3 range.
If you wish to go into 1:35 figure painting, then this is completely different story and then you will need something extremely fine, such as the Custom Micron B which has .18 mm nozzle.
You are right, the 9 ml cup is not really justified for small jobs so you might as well go for a B type of cup.
As Phil has so astutely pointed out, Tamiya and Vallejo have rather coarse pigments and they will clog the airbrush easily.
I can tell from experience that my Custom Micron C (.23 mm nozzle) doesn't digest Vallejo paints unless they are very very very well thinned.
However, whichever airbrush you are choosing, be happy with it and use it to its fullest potential.
Cheers,

Sebastian
didgeboy
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 01:47 PM UTC
My question is this. If you go Iwata you are going to have to change hoses, or at least buy another quick connect and a new hose as they are not compatible, so why not get another badger? Amazon has both the Krome super fine and the sotar fine for dirt cheap, $100 and $60 respectively. I would consider that first for ease of convenience than have to buy a whole new set up as well as an airbrush.
callum111
#255
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 02:38 PM UTC
Hi Damon
I already have a badger and would like to try something different as I've heard many many great things about iwata. Buying a new hose is on my to do list as I have a crappy curled up plastic/rubbery hose for my one. I'm on a bit of a buying spree for 2014 - buying new tools paints etc for the coming year.

Spending $250 or so is not an issue to me either.

Phil,
Thank you for the kind advice - I've read other threads where people recommended the .2 HP BH but I found that many many more loved the .3 size in the HP CH and the plus series also being more common.
The only difference between the C plus and the CH is the MAC valve is it not?

Sebastian,
thanks for the opinion - I remember seeing an airbrush with a B size cup and .3 size - just have to look around

That helps a lot with the choosing. I've narrowed it down to the C plus and CH

Thanks - more opinion would be much appreciated!
Callum
jakes357
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 03:32 PM UTC
If you make a decision on the Iwata, Hobbylobby carries this line and you can utilize their 40% off coupon. I got the HP-C Plus there and used the savings to put toward a compressor with a tank and pressure guages(2)(DeWald from Amazon $50+ free shipping) best money I've spent lately.
This was after two of those lousy 'hobby compressors" (I know I should have known better....)
Good luck!
Jake
GALILEO1
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 03:48 PM UTC
Hey Callum,

I know the thread is about Iwata but why not give Harder & Steenbeck a try? After years of only using Iwata airbrushes (including brushes higher in the range like the HP-CH), I was simply blown away by the H&S brush I finally decided to buy a couple of months ago. I was so impressed that, in one day, I relegated my three Iwata brushes to the "rarely use" airbrush drawer on my shelf. The H&S brush is, for me, definitely one of those "I don't know how I managed without one" type tools. I like it so much I'm planning to buy another one soon (an Infinity CRplus).

Don't get me wrong, Iwata airbrushes are great (and I wouldn't get rid any of the ones I have). It's just that, for me, the H&S Evolution CRplus I bought is so much better.

Just in case, this is the one I purchased:

http://www.chicagoairbrushsupply.com/hastevcr0212.html

Note also that it comes with an Infinity-style needle cap (two prongs) that allows for super easy wiping of the needle when using acrylic paints (something you can't do very well with Iwatas unless you unscrew the needle cap each time you want to do this). The color cup is also changeable with the H&S brush allowing you to use smaller or larger cups.

One last thing, in case you're interested. I now use the H&S brush with an external MAC valve (made by Grex) and I can tell you that this combination has really improved my spraying abilities as I no longer have to regulate the air at the compressor and can literally get down to hair lines without issues at all (as long as thinning ratios are still taken into consideration, of course). As you can see in the above link, the a/b I bought came with a .2mm needle/nozzle. I can tell you that I've had NO issues spraying Tamiya, Vallejo Model Air and Model Color, LifeColor, Gunze, you name it.

Here's the external MAC piece just in case:

http://www.chicagoairbrushsupply.com/grmiaircova.html

Rob

P.S. I have no affiliation to H&S whatsoever! Just a very, very happy modeler who decided to try something new.
Chrisk-K
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 04:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text



The only difference between the C plus and the CH is the MAC valve is it not?




Yes and $40. Keep in mind that you need to develop a feel for the MAC valve as there's no way to tell the psi number. It is a great tool if you need to keep changing psi, but I don't see why modelers would do so.

Plus, one more component means more cleaning required. I assume your compressor has a psi regulator. Then, the MAC valve wouldn't add an additional value to you.

Like others say, a .2 mm nozzle may be an overkill for the German camo. You really don't need to spray hairlines.

If I were you, I'd buy an HP-C (I'm happy with my Iwata HP-CS and SAR).
GALILEO1
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 04:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Yes and $40. Keep in mind that you need to develop a feel for the MAC valve as there's no way to tell the psi number. It is a great tool if you need to keep changing psi, but I don't see why modelers would do so.

Plus, one more component means more cleaning required. I assume your compressor has a psi regulator. Then, the MAC valve wouldn't add an additional value to you.

Like others say, a .2 mm nozzle may be an overkill for the German camo. You really don't need to spray hairlines.

If I were you, I'd buy an HP-C (I'm happy with my Iwata HP-CS and SAR).



I don't get why some of you are suggesting against a .2mm airbrush to spray camo patterns. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with a .2mm airbrush! If you know what you're doing (i.e take into consideration paint to thinner ratio), you can spray equally larger lines as with an airbrush with a .3, .4, or .5mm needle/nozzle. I've sprayed through LOTS of brushes of all sizes and I've yet to find a smaller size airbrush incapable of spraying larger patterns. Really small sizes like a .15 may be overkill for what we do, but anything bigger than that is just find. The finesse you can get with smaller sizes is the difference here (read atomization). And, as mentioned in my post above, I've had no problems spraying all types of modeling acrylics through all the .2mm brushes I've ever owned.

Regarding the MAC valve, well, what feel is really there to "develop"? You either get air or no air with it, depending on how far you go with the "screw." You mentioned why us modelers would need to change PSIs anyway. Well, have you tried cleaning your airbrush at 10 or even 15 PSIs lately? You'll be there for a while. Increasing pressure is needed even when painting as not all paints (even from the same manufacturer) behave the same way. You need to adjust pressure as required depending on the circumstances. Granted, there's no problem doing this at the compressor. However, having it right there in-line (or integrated in the case of the CH line) is not a bad thing either - which actually adds value in the general sense.

Rob
BBD468
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Posted: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 05:10 PM UTC
Callum, my 2 cents. I have 3 airbrushes:

Iwata Eclipse HP-CS is the finest AB ive ever used and its like my right arm! I spray Tamiya, Lifecolor, AK and Vallejo and with minor psi.adjustments for Brand used it performs flawlessly. Its a breeze to clean as well

Iwata High Performance B-Plus its used for tight soft edge camo 1/35th and preshade & camo on 1/48 and 1/72. Excellent air brush but pricey.

Badger 150.....relegated to junk duty, mostly used on dio bases and painting ground work.

For the Price ya cant go wrong with the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS and you'll be glad ya got it. Just my personal opinion of course.

Have a look in my photo gallery if ya want to see how it performs.

Good luck fella!
callum111
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Posted: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 04:42 AM UTC
Thanks for the heads up john - I'll be sure to check that out!
Gary, one day I will buy an eclipse. I hear many great things about them and it will most likely replace the ol badger - see how things go.

Rob, I’ve checked the eBay pricing and looked at the eBay comparisons and I must say the infinity CR plus from H&S is quiet the pricey one but the control and adjustments look very interesting for ease of spraying. Did the Evolution actually have a paint flow adjuster like the Iwatas and the infinity?

Still a very hard choice though, as I’m trying to sum it all up. Chrisk, I’ll go for the C models in the Iwatas as many modelers appear to prefer these; the MAC to me seems like a very useful asset also – sorry rob but I don’t see harm in the .3 or .2 but I’ll take the .3 to be safe.

I’m now currently deciding between the
- H&S infinity CRplus
- Iwata HP-CH HI Line
the H&S evolution/silverline also comes to mind

My contribution to the discussion – The infinity seems quiet complex but an essential tool once you get the hang of it due to all the control you can obtain. I like how you are able to change cup size and easily clean the needle tip as I’ll be using mostly if not all the time acrylic paints from Tamiya and Vallejo. The quick fix etc are also nice additions.

On the more simple side the Iwata HP-CH brush is very nice with the complexity I can handle. I like the air adjustment on the front together with the paint flow on the back. It seems to me when the paint is right you can achieve great results with this brush and the price is quiet reasonable!
The only draw backs I spot is the cup size – I prefer the 2mL but this is 7mL if I’m correct? Also the needle is not as exposed and from what I hear you need to remove the cap to wipe off dried paint. It’s also 100 dollars cheaper too.

Thanks for the opinions, it’s really helping!
Callum
GALILEO1
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Posted: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 06:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Rob, I’ve checked the eBay pricing and looked at the eBay comparisons and I must say the infinity CR plus from H&S is quiet the pricey one but the control and adjustments look very interesting for ease of spraying. Did the Evolution actually have a paint flow adjuster like the Iwatas and the infinity?



The Infinity line is indeed pricy. That's because these airbrushes are at the top of their range (just like a Custom Micron would be for Iwata - except that the H&S Infinity is much cheaper). What you get, however, is a great brush. I tried one a few months ago and really liked it. Regarding the adjusting mechanism for the pain flow on Evolutions, yes, you can buy this and it's just a matter of changing the handle:

http://www.chicagoairbrushsupply.com/qufixhawimef.html


Quoted Text


...sorry rob but I don’t see harm in the .3 or .2 but I’ll take the .3 to be safe.



No need to say sorry. I can understand why you would want to go for a mid-size airbrush as most people tend to do that. However, if .3mm is what you want, then you'll have to go with an Iwata as the H&S airbrushes don't come with a .3mm needle/nozzle. With most, if not all H&S airbrushes is either a .15, .2, .4, or a combination of those - which they call "2 in 1" options. Again though, there really isn't much of a difference between a .3 and .2. You will still be able to do what you want (probably even better) with one. Please know that this is just my humble opinion.


Quoted Text


My contribution to the discussion – The infinity seems quiet complex but an essential tool once you get the hang of it due to all the control you can obtain. I like how you are able to change cup size and easily clean the needle tip as I’ll be using mostly if not all the time acrylic paints from Tamiya and Vallejo. The quick fix etc are also nice additions.



The two-pronged needle caps/guards on the H&S airbrushes were a major part of my decision to get my Evolution CRplus. Being that I only spray acrylics, I knew I would have an easier time wiping the needle than having to unscrew my Iwata needle caps each time I wanted to clean the tip.

The free-floating nozzles on the H&S airbrushes are also nice as you don't need to unscrew the nozzle (as you have to with the Iwatas) to clean it - which also prevents damage to the nozzle and/or body of the airbrush. As you probably know, if you thread the nozzle incorrectly into an Iwata, say, HP-CH, and you damage the threads on the body, you're pretty much SOL.


Quoted Text


On the more simple side the Iwata HP-CH brush is very nice with the complexity I can handle. I like the air adjustment on the front together with the paint flow on the back. It seems to me when the paint is right you can achieve great results with this brush and the price is quiet reasonable!
The only draw backs I spot is the cup size – I prefer the 2mL but this is 7mL if I’m correct? Also the needle is not as exposed and from what I hear you need to remove the cap to wipe off dried paint. It’s also 100 dollars cheaper too.



Yes on the need to remove the needle cap to wipe the tip.

Callum, please don't take my comments as to mean that I don't like Iwata airbrushes. In fact, I do like and enjoy each of the 3 I have. For me though it just comes down to getting things done in a easier way, without the risk of accidentally damaging the tool (as in the case of having to use a wrench to unscrew the nozzles in my Iwata aibrushes).

Rob

P.S. Are you the Callum that also posts on ARC?
callum111
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Posted: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 12:03 PM UTC
Hi Rob,
Thanks again for the information! Also not at all - I was fully aware you enjoy your Iwata airbrushes, just that you found the H&S to serve you better and thus recommended it too

I'll sum up the both the infinity and CH to see what suits best and make a final decision. I'm sure either way they're a great choice.
Thanks to everyone who contributed - great discussion and I found it very useful to making a decision. I should have my mind made up today and inform you on the decision.

Cheeers
Callum
nzgunnie
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Posted: Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 04:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

My question is this. If you go Iwata you are going to have to change hoses, or at least buy another quick connect and a new hose as they are not compatible, so why not get another badger? Amazon has both the Krome super fine and the sotar fine for dirt cheap, $100 and $60 respectively. I would consider that first for ease of convenience than have to buy a whole new set up as well as an airbrush.




If you are keen on keeping your current hose, you can buy adapters.

Or, just buy a new hose. It really shouldn't stop you upgrading from a badger to an iwata. I really can't fathom keeping a badger just because of the hose.
callum111
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Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 01:01 PM UTC
Decided to go with the iwata HP CH - seems like the best deal for my skill and needs.
Thanks for the opinions and advice!
callum111
#255
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 01:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Decided to go with the iwata HP CH



My apologies - I meant the HP BH as the cup size on the CH was too large for my liking.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Monday, December 23, 2013 - 04:11 PM UTC
Good choice. See if you can get a crown cap for it to minimize paint build up at the tip. It helped when I had mine Here's a link for one:

http://www.chicagoairbrushsupply.com/i1050crcapec.html


Rob
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Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 04:19 AM UTC
I recently got the Iwata Revolution CR. In comparison, my old Aztek is a piece of , and much better than my Badger. The Iwata is very easy to maintain with very few interior parts (unlike Aztek ), and, depending where you buy it, can be cheaper. Whatever model you decide on, I would suggest the gravity feed version (cup on top) as opposed to syphon feed, as it takes lower air pressure.
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