Just got back into modeling and have been reading about washes.

From what I read, the best method is using enamel paint which has been thinned (a bunch).

Here's my problem, after applying the wash some of the parts I cemented on have come loose. Looks like the thinner is causing the cement to unbond.

Used testors liquid cement, and painted with Model Masters.

Suggestions?

Hi Robert,
Where did you read that about enamel paint? I never heard that before. As you saw, the thinner will definitely undo all the glued joints.

The most successful washes are done using artist oil paints. Such as Winsor and Newton. Thin them with Mona Lisa Odorless Thinner. Both are available from Michaels.

The W%N oil paints are expensive for the size of the tube, but they last a LOOOOOONG time. some tubes I have are over 15 years old.

Steve

Ah, thanks. Maybe I didn't pay close enough attention to the articles I read. When they said use thinned oils, I assumed any enamel like model master would be an oil based paint.

So..if I decide to change over to acrylics like Vallejo, would I use the oil paints for a wash or could I use a thinned acrylic?

If you switch to acrylic the thinned oil will still be the best bet. The oil or enamel thinners will not bother the acrylic paint. If you have not tried it yet I would suggest spraying the model with good ole Future after you finish painting it. Not only does it make putting decals on easier it also protects the paint from what ever weathering you are going to do. Here is a web site that talks about future
http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

No, you don't want to use thinned acrylic; it will affect your acrylic base coat negatively.

Here's what I do:
Apply enamel base coat, let dry 24 hours.
Apply a couple of coats of clear acrylic top coat (I use Future), let dry 24 hours.
My wash is made from W&N oil paint thinned with Turpenoid, NOT turpentine.

I sure others have their methods; this is just what I do.

There's plenty of threads and articles on washes, just search and you'll find the info you're after.

Mike

Quote
"No, you don't want to use thinned acrylic; it will affect your acrylic base coat negatively."

Please explain, I am curious.

Cheers,
Joe

What thinner are you using with the Model Master paints?

Are you using MM oil based enamels or MM acrylics?

Cheers,
Joe

Robert,

For your info...




You are not assuming wrong...

ModelMaster makes an oil based enamel line of paint as well
as an acrylic line called ModelMaster Acryls.

Cheers,
Joe

Hi Robert,

If you are willing to buy a few more paints and supplies, here is an article about predominately using acrylics to make washes. That should protect the glue seams.

https://archive.kitmaker.net/features/782

If it were me, I'd stick with the oil paints for the wash. Different medium: the solvent for the oil paint won't attack the acrylic. The rule I learned was if you use acrylic paints for the model, then use oil paints for the washes.

I would also recommend a gloss varnish in between painting the model and applying the washes. This does two things: It seals the paint and makes applying the wash a lot easier.

I only used acrylic paint once for the washes and didn't like the way they turned out, so I stick with oil paints.

HTH,
Steve

Thanks for the advice guys, really appreciate it.

It's been a while since I did any modeling and new techniques are going to take a while to master.

cheers

Robert

Can I start this by saying that I'm a relative newbie, I've only been modelling for a year. But there seems to be some weird advice going on here. (Of course I could always have got it wrong, but I don't think so?)

You can make washes 3 ways:-

1. Enamel paint and enamel thinner, you can thin it to get the effect you're after. I would suggest somewhere around 80% thinner for a wash, 95% for a filter. I've no idea why that would loosen your glue, it never has in my experience. MIG Washes that you buy off the shelf are enamel based. I use enamel washes/filters all the time and mix my own, in fact they are my preferred method. I use humbrol enamel and humbrol thinner.

2. Oil washes. Pretty much as mentioned already, although I thin mine with white spirit from the hardware store. I used turpentine once and it ate through everything, including my mixing palette! Go for mineral spirits - white spirit.

3. Acrylic washes. These are tricky. You need to make sure they stay wet until you have them where you want them as they dry really quick. (Once it's hard dried it's there for good). You can pin wash detail using this technique also, but you will need to let it dry very very slightly then you can remove the excess with airbrush cleaner. As I said, it's tricky, but it does work.

I always put a layer of future over before using any filters or washes, simply because it makes them easier to work, position, and remove.

As I said I may have got it wrong, but I'm here to learn

Hope that helps anyway

Andy

Hi,
Agree with Andy about the different kinds of washes, enamels work as fine as oils for me... acrylics are harder to master.

As for the base, I prefer to be on the safe side and paint with acrylics, that will not be affected by turpentine or enamel thinner.

Quite strange the issue with parts falling off, modellers glue does melt the plastic and parts get welded so it should not be affected. Do you glue parts after painted? maybe you use too much thinner and soak the surface?

cheers

Carlos

Yes, that is a draw back with the thinner on glue.

Wow,I can't say that I have had a problem with my enamel washes loosening my glue joints ? I don't slop my washes on,I use them gently,but definitly no falling apart of anything.