I've just completed building my first British model, the Tamiya Quad Tractor kit. After googling and reading until I was cross-eyed, I'm throwing in the flag and asking for some help. As a British WWII AFV newbie, can anyone help me answer the following questions?

* What primer color was typically used for British softskins?
* What interior color would be used on this vehicle?
* Is there a good (hopefully single) resource for external paint schemes? I'm particularly interested in AfrikaKorps, but also interested in European schemes throughout the war.
* Were these Quad Tractors used in Europe, or just in Africa?

Thanks!

Good question, but it doesn't relate to the model you built.

The Tamiya Quad is a Ford Canada product and Canadian vehicles had their own rules even though they were based on British regulations.

W.r.t. primer, the best info I've found is that, like our American bretheren, we used a primer coat that was the same colour as the base colour. That's not definitive, though, so if anyone knows different, please let me know.

[quote]* What interior color would be used on this vehicle?[/uote]
Same as the exterior colour when it came off the factory floor. This vehicle was likely produced in either SCC2 Brown or BS 61 ight Stone depending if it was bound for the desert or Britain.

When vehicles were repainted in local colours, the interior was seldom repainted. So in Italy you get Light Mud FATs with Light Stone interiors. Sometimes crews painted the interiors whatever colour they liked.


There are no single source books on pretty much any Allied armour or their markings and Allied softskins are even less well represented in reference form. Also, as I mentioned on your other thread, there were no standard markings for captured Allied equipment. You have to find a photo and go from there. There really is no other choice. And even when you find it, you still have to guess at many of the colours because it's generally a B&W photo.


Well, the Tamiya Quad is a Ford Canada No 12 Cab FAT and these were only built between about late 1941 and mid 42 after which they were supplnated by the No 13 Cab FATs which had the reverse angle windscreen.

No 12 Cab FATs were used in the desert and Tunisia and in England for training. By the time of Overlord, they had all pretty much been replaced by No 13 cab vehicles as the earlier ones wore out.

I have yet to see a No 12 Cab FAT in service in NW Europe after D-Day. It's not unlikely that there were some as there were a lot of them in service only a year or so before, but a lot of units for the invasion drew new equipment for the landings or were formed on the new equipment when equipping. Some may have been passed down to the AT regiments as 17 pdr towers as Arty reg'ts got newer No 13 Cab vehicles.

Again, you simply can't make generalities about these vehicles as this was a time of transition.

HTH

Paul

Hi Jake, actually, there is only one superb source to get all your questions answered:
Lt Col Dick Taylor' s series WARPAINT, colours and markings of British Army Vehicles 1903 - 2003. Published by MMP Books, Green series. 4 Well documented, extremely detailed, books, which are also affordable for the smaller budgets ( so, no new models have to be missed!).
The books show loads of black and white and coloured photos, even of very rare vehicles, next to camouflage pattern drawings. Furthermore, a detailed explanation of the marking system is part of the book.
Since Mr. Taylor is a British Army high ranked officer, he had access to many sources. These books will certainly answer all your questions.
And for the extremists amongst us, he attached a long list with alternative sources and a pdf with all the used and known vehicle names!!!
for more info:
[email protected] or [email protected]
www.mmpbooks.biz

Good luck!

Warpaint is very good, but it isn't one volume, you really need all volumes to get the story. It also doesn't focus on captured vehicles or markings.

+1 on the recommendation for the four volume Warpaint series.

However, good as it is, it only touches peripherally on the many variations and deviations in camouflage used by the different, non-British Commonwealth forces. It also only skims over many nationality-specific markings used by those forces.

In its defense, Warpaint only ever claims to cover British army vehicle camouflage and markings, so any additional information on non-British forces is really a bonus, not a deficiency. And those other Commonwealth forces, at least nominally, did follow the basic British regulations and orders, so Warpaint should be considered a "fundamental" reference.

Barry Beldam, Jeffery Plowman, Steve Guthrie, and William Marshall have all authored many volumes (some co-authored by Beldam and Plowman) on Canadian, New Zeeland and South African camouflage and markings published by Model Centrum Progress:

Model centrum Progress::Armor Color Gallery Books

Admittedly, these books are not as detailed as Taylor's Warpaint series, but they do help to fill in the gaps, especially with the nationality specific information.

Commonwealth camouflage and markings is, IMO, the most complicated of all of the various WWII forces, both Allied and Axis. It's really too bad that the subject hasn't had a hundredth of the ink spilled on German cammo and markings. Commonwealth cammo and markings were hugely varied and complicated and changed constantly throughout the war. German cammo and markings is child's play when compared to it.

Hi Paul,

In my recommandation:
Line 3: 4 well documented books!!!!

All this is completely true, That's why there isn't a single source for the info Jake asked for.



Indeed!

Paul

For a compilation of Mike SStarmers mixes for Commonwealth armour see here:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/message/1253373076/Compilation+of+M+Starmer%27s+paint+mixes+-+with+thanks-

There are a couple of Vallejo mixes, but they are not vetted by Mike.

HTH

Paul

[quote]

I didn't know that. So were Shermans, and other tanks, primered in an OD colored primer?

Many American vehicles were painted in a combination primer/top coat that, at least for Sherman, and I think for many other vehicles, baked on. There is a photo in Hunnicutt of a Sherman rolling through the IR lamp paint baking oven at one of the arsenals.

Some of the trucks, though, had some parts painted in black while on the line and then overpainted when the vehicle was complete with other parts painted in OD from the inital clean after pressing.

You really had to look at the manufacturing process of each vehicle as I'm pretty sure that exactly how the paint was put on or how (or if) a vehcle was primed was NOT called out in the purchase contract.

The vehcles produced in smaller numbers or in smaller shops may have been done differently, so it's hard to make a sweeping statement. The photos in Bill Gregg's books on the vehicles made in Canada at GM and Ford don't seem to show any primer. Could be wrong, but they don't seem to.

There was also a conversation on ML a couple years ago and someone, (maybe Kurt?) had some evidence that US practice was generally not to prime the basic vehicle but go straight to OD and then touch up after manufacture. But those are generalities.

Paul