AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
Pastels and how to use them ?
kernowmerlin
Joined: April 29, 2002
KitMaker: 26 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 01:16 AM UTC
I have now decided that i need to advance my armour modelling skills and i am trying to get to grips with pastels. What are the best pastels to use ( i have purchased oil-free blendable & soluble colours). My main question is how to apply them to best acheive the look you want and when or not when to use them ?
Folgore
Joined: May 31, 2002
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 02:50 AM UTC
I think there was another post recently on this subject, so you can look there for more information. As for me, I use pastel chalks (not oil pastels). I think Pastel pencils also work. I grind a bit against sandpaper, making a fine powder. Using a cheap brush, just put it in the desired areas and blow the excess off. The dust should settle in the spots where real dust would settle after you blow it around.
Nic
Nic
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 02:54 AM UTC
First of all - WELCOME TO ArmoramA !
Here is an article from a member of IPMS, that I used when
I first started using pastels for enhancing & weathering my models.
1). Use chalk pastels, not oil-base pastels. Most people use pastels
for weathering and highlighting areas on models. I would recommend
obtaining a set of shades of gray, and a set of earth tones. I
obtained a set of 12 of each ranging from very light to very dark at
a craft store for about $4.50 for each set. You can also obtain
many individual colour, like shades of green. I've used these for
creating the line camouflage on some German aircraft used in Africa.
HOW TO APPLY CHALK PASTELS:
(Urban Fredriksson)
There are several ways to apply pastels. Here are some tips:
1) Make sure the model has a matte finish. This can either be the
bare matte paint, or if the paint is gloss, a matte overcoat.
2) Use fine sandpaper or emery boards to make some chalk dust. At
this point different coloured pastels can be mixed.
3) To apply the pastel, use a paintbrush, preferably with somewhat
firm, yet soft bristles. Alternately, there are cardboard pencil
like applicators that can be obtained at craft stores. Q-tips
also make a good applicator, as well as pieces of felt. A very
good applicator can be obtained from a cassette head cleaning kit.
These kits usually have a small handle and pieces of felt used to
clean the head of a cassette player.
4) Don't worry if you apply too much, a damp cloth will clean it
right off.
5) Use of a sealer coat is optional. Unless you will be handling the
model much, one is not necessary, and looks better.
I HOPE THIS HELPS & GOOD LUCK !
- ralph
Here is an article from a member of IPMS, that I used when
I first started using pastels for enhancing & weathering my models.
1). Use chalk pastels, not oil-base pastels. Most people use pastels
for weathering and highlighting areas on models. I would recommend
obtaining a set of shades of gray, and a set of earth tones. I
obtained a set of 12 of each ranging from very light to very dark at
a craft store for about $4.50 for each set. You can also obtain
many individual colour, like shades of green. I've used these for
creating the line camouflage on some German aircraft used in Africa.
HOW TO APPLY CHALK PASTELS:
(Urban Fredriksson)
There are several ways to apply pastels. Here are some tips:
1) Make sure the model has a matte finish. This can either be the
bare matte paint, or if the paint is gloss, a matte overcoat.
2) Use fine sandpaper or emery boards to make some chalk dust. At
this point different coloured pastels can be mixed.
3) To apply the pastel, use a paintbrush, preferably with somewhat
firm, yet soft bristles. Alternately, there are cardboard pencil
like applicators that can be obtained at craft stores. Q-tips
also make a good applicator, as well as pieces of felt. A very
good applicator can be obtained from a cassette head cleaning kit.
These kits usually have a small handle and pieces of felt used to
clean the head of a cassette player.
4) Don't worry if you apply too much, a damp cloth will clean it
right off.
5) Use of a sealer coat is optional. Unless you will be handling the
model much, one is not necessary, and looks better.
I HOPE THIS HELPS & GOOD LUCK !
- ralph
Spike9077
Joined: May 07, 2002
KitMaker: 179 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 03:00 AM UTC
Do anyone use pastels on their tank tracks or wheels, and if so do you use the same method that Ralph described? Or do you use more or less pastel powder and apply it differently?
Thanks,
Mark :-)
Thanks,
Mark :-)
kernowmerlin
Joined: April 29, 2002
KitMaker: 26 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 03:13 AM UTC
Thanks for the help everyone, all i need now is the confidence to start off on a finished model.
Also thanks for the welcome, this site has given me so much info it is truly a godsend
Also thanks for the welcome, this site has given me so much info it is truly a godsend
Folgore
Joined: May 31, 2002
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 08:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Do anyone use pastels on their tank tracks or wheels, and if so do you use the same method that Ralph described? Or do you use more or less pastel powder and apply it differently?
Yes. These areas would get really dusty on a dry dusty road. In the newest Military Modelling magazine, one person puts on pastel dust after a wash with oils over the running gear while the wash is still wet. It gave the muddy look some texture. I'm going to have to try this one.
Also, about sealing the dust with a clear coat. It works well for dark colours, but lighter tans just disappear.
Nic
Spike9077
Joined: May 07, 2002
KitMaker: 179 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 09:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Yes. These areas would get really dusty on a dry dusty road. In the newest Military Modelling magazine, one person puts on pastel dust after a wash with oils over the running gear while the wash is still wet. It gave the muddy look some texture. I'm going to have to try this one.
Also, about sealing the dust with a clear coat. It works well for dark colours, but lighter tans just disappear.
Nic
I'll have to try that. But since I have already put a wash on my tanks maybe I can mix the powder with paint thinner. I'll try that I guess.
Thanks,
Mark
Folgore
Joined: May 31, 2002
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 01:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'll have to try that. But since I have already put a wash on my tanks maybe I can mix the powder with paint thinner. I'll try that I guess.
It depends what you're trying to do. If you want a dusty appearance, just use the pastels as normal. If you want mud, do another wash over the wheels and follow it up with the pastels. I know one way to make a whitewash for winter camo on tanks is by mixing pastel dust and water, so just mixing the pastels with thinner might give you more of a paste.
Nic
Envar
Joined: March 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,088 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 07:52 PM UTC
For a nice dusty effect on armor, spray some flat coat on dusty areas and apply pastel over that. If the base is even a bit shiny, this treatment gives the dust not only color-differing effect but also reduces shine in the surface...Of course, pastels also reduce shine when applied over shiny surface even without flat coat...
Toni
Toni
GeneralFailure
Joined: February 15, 2002
KitMaker: 2,289 posts
Armorama: 1,231 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 08:14 PM UTC
I still think Epi's HEMTT's are some of the best examples of dusting I've seen around on the web.
Maybe Epi can reveal some of his secrets ?
:-)
Maybe Epi can reveal some of his secrets ?
:-)
slodder
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
Armorama: 7,138 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 08:28 PM UTC
As some have mentioned - sand a pastel to powder and apply with an old still brush.
You can mix any color combo to get multiple layers of color for a more refined look.
I will also mix the same pastel dust in with water and make a wash and use that so the wash and dust all blend.
I think it comes out quite nicely. You can also add the poweder to putty or drywall spackle for coloring clumps of mud.
Pastels are so versitile.
You can mix any color combo to get multiple layers of color for a more refined look.
I will also mix the same pastel dust in with water and make a wash and use that so the wash and dust all blend.
I think it comes out quite nicely. You can also add the poweder to putty or drywall spackle for coloring clumps of mud.
Pastels are so versitile.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 10:37 PM UTC
I think pastels are wonderful - if used in conjunction with other mediums - to convey the weathering you want. My Jeep is weathered with diluted Hudson & Allen Mud and pastels separately for a more subtle effect. The tires are weathered with this diluted mud, an oil paint mixture of Zinc White and Ivory Black, and white pastel chalk to tie it into the base of a lightly snow dusted field. They were applied in stages separately, but altogether it only took a few minutes.
Alone, they're fine for simple dust effects, but there's so much more you can do with them...
Gunnie
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 11:17 PM UTC
Hi Gunnie - How are you ?
Just want to say what an excellent job
you did on " The Mutt ".
I really mean it ! - Your weathering techniques bring
life to the jeep - it's an eye-catcher for sure !
Is that the M151A1 made by Academy ?
Keep up the great work
- ralph
Just want to say what an excellent job
you did on " The Mutt ".
I really mean it ! - Your weathering techniques bring
life to the jeep - it's an eye-catcher for sure !
Is that the M151A1 made by Academy ?
Keep up the great work
- ralph
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 11:34 PM UTC
Thanks Ralph!
That's Skybow's M38A1 Willys MD Jeep. Wonderful kit and fantastically detailed. I just got my Academy M151A1 in the mail over the weekend - I can't slap 'em together that fast
Gunnie
That's Skybow's M38A1 Willys MD Jeep. Wonderful kit and fantastically detailed. I just got my Academy M151A1 in the mail over the weekend - I can't slap 'em together that fast
Gunnie
RufusLeeking
Joined: January 18, 2002
KitMaker: 330 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2002 - 01:59 AM UTC
Gunnie, once you applied the pastels, do you spray on a sealer on afterwards? I was thinking of giving them a try on my next project, but was thinks that a dullcoat spray might change the color or tint of the pastels.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2002 - 02:09 AM UTC
Not always will I apply Dull Cote to seal the pastels - but - when I do, I wait for a few days. When I've done this, I find I don't blow away the chalk.
The Dull Cote does change (deepen) the tone of the lighter colored chalks, so I generally apply the lighter colors after the main Dull Coting has been completed - and won't go back to seal them. In time, they become permanent too. I use Grumbacher's Soft Pastels and their permanance has always pleased me, but you shouldn't handle them lest you get fingerprints in the finish. They won't blow off, but do take fingerprints nicely. Thank God for display bases.
In the M38A1 above, the model was dulled down overall, and then in small segments throughout the weathering process. A fine airbrush comes in handy here - as well as thinning your Dull Cote 50% with Lacquer Thinner. It keeps both the spray finish fine, and helps prevent the "frosting" you can get when you apply Dull Cote too fast and too thick.
Gunnie
The Dull Cote does change (deepen) the tone of the lighter colored chalks, so I generally apply the lighter colors after the main Dull Coting has been completed - and won't go back to seal them. In time, they become permanent too. I use Grumbacher's Soft Pastels and their permanance has always pleased me, but you shouldn't handle them lest you get fingerprints in the finish. They won't blow off, but do take fingerprints nicely. Thank God for display bases.
In the M38A1 above, the model was dulled down overall, and then in small segments throughout the weathering process. A fine airbrush comes in handy here - as well as thinning your Dull Cote 50% with Lacquer Thinner. It keeps both the spray finish fine, and helps prevent the "frosting" you can get when you apply Dull Cote too fast and too thick.
Gunnie
RufusLeeking
Joined: January 18, 2002
KitMaker: 330 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2002 - 02:19 AM UTC
Thanks Gunnie :-) I've noticed most of your models are on display bases, is that why. So you can handle them and do finishing touches without touching the model itself.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2002 - 02:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks Gunnie :-) I've noticed most of your models are on display bases, is that why. So you can handle them and do finishing touches without touching the model itself.
Yes! The display bases protect the model from judges (mostly) and myself (primarily)
They make them easier to handle during the final steps - kinda like an artist's pallette I suppose, and transport in the future.
Gunnie
staff_Jim
Publisher
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
Armorama: 6,599 posts
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2002 - 02:41 AM UTC
Gunnie,
Your Skybow Jeep came out great! What I really love about your models is the impression of a much larger scale. I would again swear I was looking at a 1/25 scale model.
Nice detail with the black window molding. I have rarely seen one painted that way but you'd assume that they were painted much like cars as they came off the line, so windshields and moldings were installed later. Of course re-paints probably painted right over the molding.
Cheers,
Jim
Your Skybow Jeep came out great! What I really love about your models is the impression of a much larger scale. I would again swear I was looking at a 1/25 scale model.
Nice detail with the black window molding. I have rarely seen one painted that way but you'd assume that they were painted much like cars as they came off the line, so windshields and moldings were installed later. Of course re-paints probably painted right over the molding.
Cheers,
Jim
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2002 - 02:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Gunnie,
Your Skybow Jeep came out great! What I really love about your models is the impression of a much larger scale. I would again swear I was looking at a 1/25 scale model.
Nice detail with the black window molding. I have rarely seen one painted that way but you'd assume that they were painted much like cars as they came off the line, so windshields and moldings were installed later. Of course re-paints probably painted right over the molding.
Cheers,
Jim
Thanks Jim - I really do try hard to convey my impressions of the full-size vehicle when I finish my models.
The windshield glass was installed the way you describe. I haven't had the fortune to see a M38A1 in the field during it's heyday in service, so there very well could have been quite a bit of overspray on the rubber trim - that would eventually wear off. All the restored examples of the M38A1 I've seen (naturally) are cleanly built and painted with no paint marring the rubber trim on the windshield glass. I think during that time (1959), particularly, the US Army in Europe was notably fastidious about their vehicles and appearance.
Gunnie
ladymodelbuilder
Joined: February 26, 2002
KitMaker: 1,218 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2002 - 12:35 PM UTC
Love the jeep, Gunnie !!!! Thanks for the very useful tips too.... :-) I'll try some of them on my Bf109-E4....
I hope I don't screw up.....
I hope I don't screw up.....
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2002 - 10:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Love the jeep, Gunnie !!!! Thanks for the very useful tips too.... :-) I'll try some of them on my Bf109-E4....
I hope I don't screw up.....
Thanks Penny!
How's that cigarette lighter comin'?
Gunnie
ladymodelbuilder
Joined: February 26, 2002
KitMaker: 1,218 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 06:16 AM UTC
Coming along pretty good, Gunnie.... I've gotta paint it and glue it in. #:-) I'm gonna try and make a cigar too.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 10:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Coming along pretty good, Gunnie.... I've gotta paint it and glue it in. #:-) I'm gonna try and make a cigar too.
Now that's what I wanna see!
Gunnie
ladymodelbuilder
Joined: February 26, 2002
KitMaker: 1,218 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 04:26 AM UTC
Hey Gunnie,
There's a most recent pic of the 109 in the "On the Workbenck" Gallery..... You can see the PE seatbelts and I've got the plane painted. I still have to paint the camo on the sides,too. I'll be putting the lighter in this evening..... #:-) Still working on the cigar though....
There's a most recent pic of the 109 in the "On the Workbenck" Gallery.....
You can see the PE seatbelts and I've got the plane painted. I still have to paint the camo on the sides,too. I'll be putting the lighter in this evening..... #:-) Still working on the cigar though.... 
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