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News Archer: Canadian Markings and Posters
Posted: Friday, April 11, 2014 - 10:00 AM UTC
Some news out of Archer Fine Transfers is some new markings for Canadian Vehicles and some Canadian and Dutch propaganda posters.
Read the Full News Story
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
Posted: Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 01:58 AM UTC
This a great announcement. It can be such a PITA to find Canadian markings all on one sheet, especially some of the less mainstream markings. Also very happy to see the correct maple leaf on the formation signs. So often you see it depicted as seen on the current flag instead of the one seen here. Good stuff!
gcdavidson
Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 09:00 AM UTC
fantastic! Have to pick up 38 & 39 for sure.
Posted: Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 09:22 AM UTC
I ordered before I posted the news story......
bill_c
Campaigns Administrator
New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Monday, April 14, 2014 - 03:03 AM UTC
This is good news for you Canuck fans (not the hockey team)! And the continuing issuance of propaganda posters is also great news, as they can be pasted to walls, weathered and ripped as necessary.
gcdavidson
Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 03:02 AM UTC
Looking at the AOS signs decals..got me wondering:
All the red over blue (Artillery) AOS markings provided comprise 3-digit numbers, 172-175. That means they are for 1st Cdn Army, and should have a white bar underneath. Not only that, but it means if you intend on pairing them with the sheet pictured in the news article, you can only use a few of the Formation Signs (and will still need to add the white bar)
Like this (edit - the white bar is not going to show on the white background here):
In fact, none of the AOS signs can be used with 1,2,3,4,5 Canadian Division Formation signs, which make up around 30% of that sheet.
And as none of the AOS signs have the white bar on top, then it becomes problematic using them with 1st or 2nd Canadian Corps Formation markings.
Corps Formation:
Should have white bar on the top of AOS:
The Signal Corps markings (white over blue with red numbers) which belong to 1 Cdn Army are supposed to have a red bar on the bottom, not a white one.
I'm sure there's still usefullness in the sheets, but a lot of the AOS markings simply cannot be paired with the other sheet of Formation signs.
All the red over blue (Artillery) AOS markings provided comprise 3-digit numbers, 172-175. That means they are for 1st Cdn Army, and should have a white bar underneath. Not only that, but it means if you intend on pairing them with the sheet pictured in the news article, you can only use a few of the Formation Signs (and will still need to add the white bar)
Like this (edit - the white bar is not going to show on the white background here):
In fact, none of the AOS signs can be used with 1,2,3,4,5 Canadian Division Formation signs, which make up around 30% of that sheet.
And as none of the AOS signs have the white bar on top, then it becomes problematic using them with 1st or 2nd Canadian Corps Formation markings.
Corps Formation:
Should have white bar on the top of AOS:
The Signal Corps markings (white over blue with red numbers) which belong to 1 Cdn Army are supposed to have a red bar on the bottom, not a white one.
I'm sure there's still usefullness in the sheets, but a lot of the AOS markings simply cannot be paired with the other sheet of Formation signs.
Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 03:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Looking at the AOS signs decals..got me wondering:
All the red over blue (Artillery) AOS markings provided comprise 3-digit numbers, 172-175. That means they are for 1st Cdn Army, and should have a white bar underneath. Not only that, but it means if you intend on pairing them with the sheet pictured in the news article, you can only use a few of the Formation Signs (and will still need to add the white bar)
Like this (edit - the white bar is not going to show on the white background here):
These would be for the 1st Canadian Armoured Brigade: Ontario Regiment, Three Rivers Regiment, Calgary Regiment
Quoted Text
In fact, none of the AOS signs can be used with 1,2,3,4,5 Canadian Division Formation signs, which make up around 30% of that sheet.
And as none of the AOS signs have the white bar on top, then it becomes problematic using them with 1st or 2nd Canadian Corps Formation markings.
Corps Formation:
Should have white bar on the top of AOS:
This type would be useful for Corp and Divisional RSASC units, as they did not have the white bar at the bottom
Quoted Text
The Signal Corps markings (white over blue with red numbers) which belong to 1 Cdn Army are supposed to have a red bar on the bottom, not a white one.
I have seen both used, with white or red bar, but I believe you are correct in that most used the red bar.
Quoted Text
I'm sure there's still usefullness in the sheets, but a lot of the AOS markings simply cannot be paired with the other sheet of Formation signs.
The sheet could be used with corps and divisional by removing the white bars. The sheets are very useful, just require a little research as to the correct applications. Most of the AOS have never been produced before, thus it is great to now have them.
gcdavidson
Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 06:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
These would be for the 1st Canadian Armoured Brigade: Ontario Regiment, Three Rivers Regiment, Calgary Regiment
Not following you here - are you saying the red over blue ones are for 1 CAT Bde? Some of the AOS numbers jive with 1 Cdn Army, ie 174 is 191 Fd Regt RA, and 175 is 5 Med Regt RCA.
Quoted Text
This type would be useful for Corp and Divisional RSASC units, as they did not have the white bar at the bottom
I just used RCASC as an example. The fact is the all the Corp AOS markings *should* have a white bar at the top, and *none* of the AOS markings have this white bar, therefore they shouldn't be paired up with any of the 1 or 2 Corps Formation signs.
Also, from what I can see 1944 an onwards, all the Divisional RCASC AOS markings (ie ones with no white bar on top or bottom) were two digits. The ones on the sheet are all 3 digits. Exception being 82, which has a 1 st Cdn Army white bar on the bottom, the only 2-digit RCASC AOS marking I've seen for 1 Cdn Army was HQ, which had number 50. Though they might be applicable for 1 CATB?
Archer's web page states the sheets may have deliberate mistakes to prevent copyright violations... I hope that is what I'm seeing.
Paulinsibculo
Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: July 01, 2010
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 06:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Archer's web page states the sheets may have deliberate mistakes to prevent copyright violations...
So................... a rather strange argument since these are sign used over 60 years ago!
But is there some documentation where a non-Canadian can find a reliable explanation about how to use which sign where and in a right combination?
Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 07:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThese would be for the 1st Canadian Armoured Brigade: Ontario Regiment, Three Rivers Regiment, Calgary Regiment.
Not following you here - are you saying the red over blue ones are for 1 CAT Bde? Some of the AOS numbers jive with 1 Cdn Army, ie 174 is 191 Fd Regt RA, and 175 is 5 Med Regt RCA.
The numbers match the tank brigade markings, but the red over blue s arty _only_. The 1 CATB markings are brown over blue.
They are suitable for arty units in 1 Cdn AGRA. (For the Cdn army, of course.)
Paul
Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 07:25 AM UTC
Graeme
You are correct, even Corps units would have the white bar. As I see the decals, the Blue over Red would be 1st CAB, and I believe the 3 digit RCASC, "176" would be the 1st CAB unit. 1st CAB kept there 3 digit AOS until the end of the war.
Kevin
You are correct, even Corps units would have the white bar. As I see the decals, the Blue over Red would be 1st CAB, and I believe the 3 digit RCASC, "176" would be the 1st CAB unit. 1st CAB kept there 3 digit AOS until the end of the war.
Kevin
gcdavidson
Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 08:21 AM UTC
LOL, I'm colour dyslexic today! I saw blue over red, but my brain thought red over blue.
Interesting that pretty much every type of AOS is represented on that sheet, except Artillery.
Interesting that pretty much every type of AOS is represented on that sheet, except Artillery.
gcdavidson
Ontario, Canada
Joined: August 05, 2003
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 08:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
But is there some documentation where a non-Canadian can find a reliable explanation about how to use which sign where and in a right combination?
Hi Paul, I did this up around 10 years ago. Its for 1944 onwards for units of 1st Cdn Army. I would love to see someone do something similar for 1 CATB etc.
Formation and Arm of Service Markings, 1st Canadian Army 1944
Paulinsibculo
Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 08:57 AM UTC
Hi Graeme,
That realy helps non-Canadians to understand.
Thanks a lot.
P
That realy helps non-Canadians to understand.
Thanks a lot.
P
Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 11:09 AM UTC
Paul/Graeme
Here is some images of org charts I did, that can be saved/printed for reference.
They are not totally complete, and I will find time to finish them eventually.
Here is some images of org charts I did, that can be saved/printed for reference.
They are not totally complete, and I will find time to finish them eventually.