How difficult is it to backdate The M110a2 to a 'nam version? And what would be needed?

Matt

Check here for photos

http://www.landscaper.net/artyunits.htm

there are numerous pics and stuff all Nam. Actually see for yourself. As I think tanks are only self propelled Artillery.

Artillery was designed as an area weapon (although with smart rounds, they are very accurate) using a high angle of fire (indirect fire). Tanks were developed to be precision assault weapons intially designed to take out bunkers and other strong points using line-of-sight (direct fire) and then exploit the breach in the enemy lines. They eventually evolved into mainly a method of destroying other tanks. I'd rather have a towed 105mm howitzer providing indirect fire than a mdoern MBT with a 120mm gun. Modern MBTs basically only fire a big bullet or a shaped charged, not much use as an area support weapon.

But explain this to me Rob aren't the guns for tanks at least the old tanks from the Artillery side like say the 88 MM ,75 MM ,76 MM ,105 ,155 etc
Hey your the man lead me down to the light.

SGT Reef,
Ther very earliest tank guns were just Artillery pieces installed in a turret. By WWII, most cannon were specifically made for tanks and separate for artillery. The tank cannon has a much higher muzzle velocity to acheive direct fire kills. On the other hand, artillery cannons have a lower muzzle velocity since they fire in a ballistic (parrabolic arced) trajectory and gain momentum on the downward leg of the trajectory. Also, tanks are a direct fire weapon, this means that the target is seen directly in the cross hairs of the sight and the round impacts on that cross hair, much like a rifle bullet. An artillery piece is an area fire weapon that the crew does not usually see the target. By using trianometry, a solution is sent to the gun, by setting the horizontal and verticle angles (deflection and quadrant) of the piece, you can place a round within close proximity to a point on the ground. For 155mm artillery the acceptud kill radius is within 50 meters of the target, for 105mm artilley it is 35 meters. Lastly, the type of ammunition used by artillery and tanks is also very different. Tanks ammo is designed to punch a hole in armor. Artillery rounds are generally designed to create a large explosion and spew sharp shards of steel over a large area to achieve the maximum kill radius. Very different than a tank.

Remember, Artillery is the King of Battle and most lethal system on the battlefield.

BTW, the M110A1 used in Vietnam is visually the same as an M110 A2 with the exception of the muzzle break. A1 version has no muzzle break, also barrel has slight flange at bore end. Italeri M110 A1 is appropriate for Vietnam era vehicle. Another good version for Vietnam is 175mm M107. Long barrel looks great. Italeri also makes this model.

So, It won't be very difficult at all Cool....

Thanks,

Matt

Anyone one have some close up photos of the sights for the M110/107 series? All the vehicles I've found they've been missing.

The M110 was the only 8 inch SP howitzer used in Vietnam. It didn' t ' ve a muzzle brake, as the M110A1, but ' d a much shorter barrel: 214.9 vs 328.3 inches ( courtesy Mr Hunnicutt ' s book on the Sheridan ).
In fact, the Italeri kit #252 is a M110, not a M110A1, so you could use it as it is. Luckily, because reshaping the end of the gun should be a little bit harder than it seems...!
' ve a nice day...!

Hi,
To the best of my knowledge, Both the "outdoor" SP guns share several common features with the big towed guns. The gun mount, recoil compensation system and cradle/ cariage look to me to be almost identical to the " Long Tom". So in your research, if you come across the sight details for one, some, if not all of the info could be correct for the others.
Chuck

Okay I understand that ,but is not the tank built around the gun which is a different version of the Artillery piece to begin with. Can't Artillery be also used in direct fire mode take German WWII Tiger I is this not same gun as 88 MM with different sites? One more are their not AP rounds that can used for direct fire. I used to know an SFC in Artillery at Fort Sill that was in Artillery I should of asked him darn!! OKay #:-)

PS I have the book [TM ]on the rounds wish I could find it.

The 88mm gun on the Tiger was the same (relatively) as their 88mm flak gun. It was not an indirect fire weapon system. The same properties you want for an AA gun (high velocity, flat trajectory) are the same properties you want for an anti-tank gun. The basic difference being that with flak you want the round to explode in a big puff to maximize the killing radius and with an AT gun you want it to punch a hole in the the armor.

SGT Reef,
Artillery pieces can be fired in direct fire mode in an emergency, however, they are not designed for this and do not have very good sights for this. There are no AP rounds for artillery either. When you direct fire, you use the same rounds as always, HE with a Point Detonating (PD) fuse usually. There used to be a anti-personnel round for 155mm and 8" called a flechette or beeehive round with some 900, 1" long steel darts that would be fired at mass troops attempting to overrun the artillery position. They were also called Killer Jr. and Killer Sr. for 155mm and 8" respectively by the crews. These were phased out in the late 1980's. Current method of anti-personnel round is to use a HE round with a Time fuse set to quick. This detonates the round about 50 meters out of the tube and sends shrapnel raining down on the heads of the enemy. Very effective. Again, tank cannon and artillery cannon are not the same and are designed for different purposes. BTW I am an artilleryman stationed at Ft Stewart, GA and currently command a Target Acquisition Battery (Counter Fire Radar).

Ok, Does anyone know where I can find Italeris kit #252 ?

Matt

Dude, you need to get out of the Mech Artillery.....105mm still uses AP rounds....LIGHT FIGHTER!!!!

How difficult is it to backdate The M110a2 to a 'nam version? And what would be needed?

Matt .
Matt the M110 8" howitzer (short barrel) was deployed to nam where it was considered the most accurate artillery piece. The M107 175 mm, mounted on the same chassie had a greater range due to the length of the barrel. The M110 A1 was developed to take advantage of the accuracy of the 8" and the range of the 175. Though not deployed to Nam the A1 did exhibit the desired results of accuracy and range. An unwanted side effect of the extended barrel was the increased recoil. To compensate a muzzle brake was fitted and the new configuration designated the A2. To accuratly back date the A2 to an A1 you would need to remove the body of the muzzle brake forward of the adapter ring and reshape the end of the barrel into a flange.
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aren't the guns for tanks at least the old tanks from the Artillery side like say the 88 MM ,75 MM ,76 MM ,105 ,155 etc

Yes and no. Keep in mind that diameter ie. 88mm references the tube not the weapon. The 88 mm flack gun was designed to propell a projectile at a high velocity to a height of several thousands of feet in an acceptably short time span and to be capable of positioning the direction of fire quickly and accurately. So the mount was as important as the gun tube. The ability to propell a round at a high velocity adds a bonus, kinetic energy. Though not a factor for area weapons such as indirect fire artillery and anti aircraft, it very important to direct fire weapons such as tank guns. The 88 is a high velocity gun tube and when mounted in a tank with direct fire capability it is able to use this kinetic energy to penetrate opposing armor.
The 75 and the 105 howitzers were artillery gun tubes and in the case of the 75 not very effective against heavy armored vehicles. The 105 was somewhat capable due to the added mass of the projectile but still not all that acceptable due to the added weight to the vehicle verses ability. The 76 high velocity gun tube proved to be an acceptable trade off of weight and capable of penetrating heavy armor. And like the 88mm and the 90mm's were first designed for AA. The 76 I believe was the gun tube on the Skysweeper a radar controlled AA gun. May have read this wrong. Yes many of the tank weapons were artillery gun tubes but not artillery weapons. They were tank weapons using proven artillery gun tubes in tank mounts with purpose built direct fire sight systems.
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The Verlinden resin set contains two barrels one is the 8" howitzer barrel (short) and the 8" gun tube (A1) plus a muzzle brake (A2). The barrel has no flange so you will have to make one to represent the A1. They are solid so you need to drill them out.
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When attacked the fire bases in Nam would lower their guns and fire with fuses set to zero. The round would arm and detonate 50 meters out. The shrapnel was very deadly but the down side of this action was you had to watch out for the base plate or butt end of the projectile. It would come right back at you when the projectile exploded. In 1968 we fired an apers or anti personell round in the 152". I was told that this type of round originated with the 106 recoiless and was called a bee hive round. Hundreds of Flechettes incased in bees wax which melted releasing the flechettes. We were wondering one day just how many targets would be hit at close range so we fired an apers round at some wooden ammo boxes we had set up at four hundred meters. The boxes had dozens of flechettes in them and many holes. Deadly little suckers. We found some stuck in the trees in the wood line at the edge of the cleared area.