Orochi's new M3A3 is actually ... an A2 ?
California, United States
Joined: December 14, 2002
KitMaker: 123 posts
Armorama: 116 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 - 09:14 AM UTC
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Sorry to disagree with you Ken, but I still don't see the value and I feel a lot of what you list are unnecessary extras.
The metal tracks are unnecessary since the Bradley tracks are live tracks w/no sag and should be tight, and half of the run is covered. Also, live tracks are best represented by plastic in my opinion. Same on the metal barrel, unnecessary.
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moveable wheels, Orochi metal gun barrel, 1:35 figure of bomb disposal expert, resin parts, paint mask, PE set, clear parts and 2 types of markings.
Oh boy, the wheels are movable. That is not a bonus. Neither are the PE parts as a model of this quality and price should have them. The same on the clear parts and marking options. The paint masks are cheap and shouldn't raise the price of the kit at all.
The resin bomb disposal figure doesn't go with a Bradley at all. Bomb Disposal units do not use Bradleys. It is a figure that is not needed either.
What other resin parts are in the kit? This has never been addressed.
I am not impressed. I would much more prefer an accurate M3A3 with interior, without the gimicky parts, for the price that is being asked. In my opinion, the best part of the Meng kit is the very detailed interior and that is why it is priced where it is at.
Greetings,
The key phrases in your message is "...in my opinion" and "I would prefer...".
In my opinion, as a modeler, I prefer individual metal track links to the extent that I won't buy a kit which doesn't have them or for which metal tracks are not available. I also prefer a metal gun barrel as I don't wish to spend the extra time working on a plastic barrel. I prefer to have the bomb disposal figure as I could certainly imagine a diaorama with the CFV and this figure in it. I don't like an interior as once the model is buttoned up, it cannot be seen. The paint mask is a good touch in my opinion. My opinion is that all of the extras in this kit add to it's value.
But our opinions don't matter. What matters is what the armor modelers think about the kit. We think that it will be a good seller and modelers will also buy the tracks and barrel separately for use on the Meng kit and other company's kits. Thanks and
Best Regards,
Ken Lawrence
Pacific Coast Models, Inc.
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: October 09, 2005
KitMaker: 2,556 posts
Armorama: 2,199 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 - 10:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
In my opinion, as a modeler, I prefer individual metal track links to the extent that I won't buy a kit which doesn't have them or for which metal tracks are not available. I also prefer a metal gun barrel as I don't wish to spend the extra time working on a plastic barrel. I prefer to have the bomb disposal figure as I could certainly imagine a diaorama with the CFV and this figure in it. I don't like an interior as once the model is buttoned up, it cannot be seen. The paint mask is a good touch in my opinion. My opinion is that all of the extras in this kit add to it's value.
But our opinions don't matter. What matters is what the armor modelers think about the kit. We think that it will be a good seller and modelers will also buy the tracks and barrel separately for use on the Meng kit and other company's kits. Thanks and
Best Regards,
Ken Lawrence
Pacific Coast Models, Inc.
Surely your opinion is slightly biased by the fact that you, as a vendor, are trying to secure pre-orders and sales on these Orochi kits and as a supplier who appears to not stock Meng kits any sales of their M2 is a sale potentially not coming your way...?
Re: the kit, well i'll just buy whichever looks like the most cost effective package. The metal tracks aren't really a deal breaker, and an AM bushmaster barrel is incredibly cheap. The main problem I have with the Meng kit is that it represents a very up to date vehicle, without options to builder the more common earlier versions sans air-conditioning units.
'As all else failed we raised our fists and weapons,
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Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 - 10:28 AM UTC
I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that many modellers would "prefer" no interior on a vehicle like this.. on a tank, maybe.. but not on something like this with a huge back door and top hatch that show everything inside very clearly.
I guess this is confirmation that it has no interior
But again, these are just personal opinions.. and I'm sure this kit will sell because a lot of modellers out there will feel that they just have to have it... I really don't believe the opinion of a few modellers actually affects the total sales of a kit.. unless there's something seriously wrong with it, of course.. and I'm sure this is not the case here
Hisham
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 - 11:22 AM UTC
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But our opinions don't matter. What matters is what the armor modelers think about the kit.
This is contradictory. As an armor modeler, my opinion should matter since I am a potential buyer of this kit.
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Surely your opinion is slightly biased by the fact that you, as a vendor, are trying to secure pre-orders and sales on these Orochi kits a...
That was kind of my point too. You are more than "slightly" biased.
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Showcase
Virginia, United States
Joined: October 17, 2011
KitMaker: 237 posts
Armorama: 235 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 - 11:55 AM UTC
I'll chime in and say I'd prefer the interior over metal parts that, while often very nice to have, don't seem to be a very large improvement in this particular case. Meng's interior is practically a whole second kit.
California, United States
Joined: December 14, 2002
KitMaker: 123 posts
Armorama: 116 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 - 03:19 PM UTC
"Surely your opinion is slightly biased by the fact that you, as a vendor, are trying to secure pre-orders and sales on these Orochi kits and as a supplier who appears to not stock Meng kits any sales of their M2 is a sale potentially not coming your way...?"
Actually never gave that a thought. Only thought I had about the Meng kit is that everyone who has one is a potential buyer of the Orochi track set and barrel. It seems to me that the Orochi kit will sell well.
There are hundreds of thousands, millions if you include China, of modelers in the world. Conventional wisdom which had that there was not a large number of modelers in China turns out to be wrong. Thanks and
Best Regards,
Ken Lawrence
Pacific Coast Models, Inc.
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 - 03:26 PM UTC
I'm going with Meng. The interior is what sells me. The tracks are take it or leave it. So long as they are individual links, I don't care what they are made of. There are several ways to work around clear parts. The metal barrel is cheap enough to buy as an am part. I have no idea what I would use the figure for. I don't see the etch as being a critical part of a build.
Lawrence: Do you really believe that builders would pay such a high price for just a few parts? That is just nonsense. I would think that it would be the other way round. Builders would buy the Meng kit to add an interior to the Orochi kit.
Ideals are peaceful. History is violent.
Removed by original poster on 05/30/14 - 04:45:03 (GMT).
Armed Forces Europe, United States
Joined: January 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,036 posts
Armorama: 1,033 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 - 06:22 PM UTC
Hey Guys
I got the MENG kit because of the interior option ... but that decision was made before the OROCHI was out as an alternative.
Basically I do agree with Gino about "minor necessities" needed ... I was actually hoping on a "straight" version of the Bradley M2/3 without the BUSK package to build one as seen in the Grafenwöhr pics.
Having bought the KPZ 70 kit in comparison, which I really like and thankful for, I am beginning to stop wondering about the price/value ratio on plastic kits.
Overall in the past years we are getting "bombarded" with new modern AFV kits of all kind and sorts ... and which kit/manufacture one would prefer to choose.
So I won't complain and hope this trend keeps up before we are back to another "Tiger I", another "Pz III", another "Panzer iV" etc.
Cheers
Christopher:-H
" He who seeks to defend everything, defends nothing " Frederick the Great
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: November 24, 2008
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 363 posts
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 - 07:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey Guys
I got the MENG kit because of the interior option ... but that decision was made before the OROCHI was out as an alternative.
Basically I do agree with Gino about "minor necessities" needed ... I was actually hoping on a "straight" version of the Bradley M2/3 without the BUSK package to build one as seen in the Grafenwöhr pics.
Having bought the KPZ 70 kit in comparison, which I really like and thankful for, I am beginning to stop wondering about the price/value ratio on plastic kits.
Overall in the past years we are getting "bombarded" with new modern AFV kits of all kind and sorts ... and which kit/manufacture one would prefer to choose.
So I won't complain and hope this trend keeps up before we are back to another "Tiger I", another "Pz III", another "Panzer iV" etc.
Cheers
Christopher:-H
Amen to that. Having carefully weighed the pros and cons of each option, I'm going for both. I'm just delighted we have TWO all-new-tool Bradleys after years of hoping. My budget will stretch to it if I skip some other goodies, and I'll let you know in a decade or so which purchase in hindsight I regret
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 - 10:14 AM UTC
We are all entitled to our own opinios and preferences.
And as a modeller, I still don't see the point of using metal tracks in this kind of vehicle.
Finally, for me -again- having no interior is a major disadvantage...
I surely will not get this kit, no matter whay a vendor tries to "sell" about it, and even less when I feel that the selling speech "disqualifies" some modellers point of view
Its not even a "one of a kind" like Dragon's "Black Plague" offerings...
My last .02
It's not too much, but it's all we got...
#354
England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: January 06, 2013
KitMaker: 184 posts
Armorama: 178 posts
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 - 07:41 PM UTC
I personal like the fact it comes with metal tracks and barrel and a few other bits, it would be nice to have an interior like the meng kit, but to me if it is defiantly an m3a3 Bradley I will buy it as m not very good at scratch building and would like to have both kits side by side on my club stand at shows
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Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 - 08:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I personal like the fact it comes with metal tracks and barrel and a few other bits, it would be nice to have an interior like the meng kit, but to me if it is defiantly an m3a3 Bradley I will buy it as m not very good at scratch building and would like to have both kits side by side on my club stand at shows
Quoted Text
Orochi's new M3A3 is actually ... an A2 ?
Ideals are peaceful. History is violent.
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 - 09:25 PM UTC
[quote]
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Orochi's new M3A3 is actually ... an A2 ?
What's your point? Orochi have already admitted to mistake in the kit presentation in Shizuoka, and have shown CAD images that clearly confirm the kit to be M3A3...
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 - 09:42 PM UTC
Just like every other kit... You like it - you buy it... You don't like it - you don't buy it... Simple enough?
And I'm sure the company, and the distributors, won't be affected in any way because of it
Hisham
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 - 10:03 PM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text
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Orochi's new M3A3 is actually ... an A2 ?
What's your point? Orochi have already admitted to mistake in the kit presentation in Shizuoka, and have shown CAD images that clearly confirm the kit to be M3A3...
My mistake. Missed that.
Ideals are peaceful. History is violent.
bill_c
Campaigns Administrator New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Armorama: 8,109 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2014 - 04:30 AM UTC
Seems to me as though there's a good balance between the two kits:
MENG
1.) full interior
2.) plastic tracks
3.) plastic gun
4.) limited PE
5.) $80 selling price from Sprue Bros. plus shipping
OROCHI
1.) no interior
2.) metal tracks
3.) metal gun
4.) some PE + a resin figure (appropriate or not to the Bradley)
5.) selling price $75 from PCM plus shipping
It seems to me that there are advantages and disadvantages to both kits. I paid nearly $20 for Voyager metal gun barrel & resin smoke launchers for the Meng kit, plus $20 here for Friul tracks in case I don't like the plastic tracks. I have never yet, NEVER found a styrene gun barrel that meets my requirements.
Regarding interiors, I know many modelers don't care about them, as Ken points out: you spend all that time on them, and then they're closed up when the kit's finished. The Bradley is better than some vehicles on that, as it has a drop-down rear hatch/deck. I like the interior, but I know it doesn't float everyone's boat.
All in all, I believe there's room on this planet for both kits, especially if you want the TOW/CFV option. I'm glad PCM is the importer, as they're a stand-up company to deal with according to my experiences (in the interest of full disclosure, I should point out I have never received any freebies from Ken and his crew).
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2014 - 07:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Seems to me as though there's a good balance between the two kits:
MENG
You are understandably looking at it from the US perspective. But those prices look very different in other parts of the world. I don't know what Orochi kit price will be in Poland (if it will be available at all...), but in Hong Kong (from where I will most likely get my kit) the Meng kit is $48 + shipping, while Orochi is $65 + shipping... And the balance is all gone...
But then I have to add the shipping cost and shipping that huge Meng box is very expensive, so in the end the actual cost is almost identical... Well unless you are in HK and don't have to pay the shipping...
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
bill_c
Campaigns Administrator New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Armorama: 8,109 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2014 - 07:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
You are understandably looking at it from the US perspective. But those prices look very different in other parts of the world.
It's very difficult to compare prices globally. I was using what Ken's crew will sell the kit for, and what the Meng kit sells for from one of our more-popular internet dealers (though not the cheapest), Sprue Bros.
I have also seen prices jump around as kits are introduced. The Meng kit is now sold out in Hong Kong; you couldn't get it if you wanted it. Likely Luckymodel will have it back in stock 2-3 weeks.
Finally, importers can distort prices enormously on a country-by-country basis. The Meng may be the better buy overall, you would have to do a more-detailed analysis. I'll leave that to someone else.
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2014 - 10:13 AM UTC
[quote] The Meng kit is now sold out in Hong Kong; you couldn't get it if you wanted it. Likely Luckymodel will have it back in stock 2-3 weeks.
quote]
Not really sold out in HK. Hobbyeasy has it in stock now:
http://www.hobbyeasy.com/en/data/ttz4jyzmfxnuvutywtzl.html$48 plus shipping (about 26 bucks to Argentina)
It's not too much, but it's all we got...