How would you paint Tiger I exhausts? The typical answer would involve colors like dark red brown, orange, rust, black and alike, based on today's real vehicles.

However, photos often show a different shade. Unfortunately views from behind are not so common, and even less without the exhaust cover shield, but most of the clear shots I have found show a light color:











Considering the tank is yellow, I would say this can not be dark rust. Maybe it is covered by a think layer of dust. Could be. But it is hiding the dark colour below, and it should be represented that way.

Oddly enough, they hardly have black sooth on the top...

Which color should it be painted then?

In my opinion, it could be light brown/pink as seen on some modern exhausts.

Other opinions are welcome,

Carlos

You're on the right track. Just look at the exhaust pipes on any cars or trucks around you. Keep in mind that, comparatively, most tanks were low mileage vehicles.

Watch out man,you are messing with one of the modeling "legends". Accentuated panel lines,black muzzle brakes,rusty exhausts,these are all real,and so is professional wrestling. Hehehe
J

Hi Carlos,

This is a nice matter. Basically, exhaust covers and exh.pipes are painted during the factory painting process with the same painting scheme. If the panzer is dunkelgelb, they are definitely the same.

Then, small layer of light rust is possible. But very hard rust is not realistic for new panzers with very few running hours

Regards

I'm going to go with artistic licence here I have found that sometimes weathering and wear and tear in 1:1 doesn't look realistic when done in 1:35 (or other small scale), could be fault in my eyes though... But in some ways building scale models is form of art, and therefore some "unreal" effects are desireable and look better than hardcore realism. Unless viewer is hardcore realist The trick is to make those unreal elements to look like real thing. Just my 2 cents.

Be careful here...using a modern road car for reference on an exhaust system color for a vehicle made 70 years ago is not a great idea. Modern exhausts systems are often some form of stainless steel or are treated to be rust and corrosion resistant. I had a postal jeep about 20 years ago. There was new exhaust on it, nice steel color when installed. Within a few days it was rusty, not bright orange, but rusty.
Check the exhaust stack on this modern in service bulldozer



and relatively new

Hey gang,

I think we need to take into account the fuel types used back in the day were different also. Leaded and diesel fuel burned different from today's "low sulfur" unleaded fuel we use today.
Back then the word "E.P.A." wasn't invented yet.

Just my thoughts in this matter.

See ya in the funnies..............

Not to mention that the gas used by the Germans had a really low octane rating.

I've always assumed that they were factory painted. When it comes to the Tiger, as shown only a small amount of soot and very light rust would show(assuming that the tank is recently out of the factory). Just mho.

I think this may be one area where myth and reality are fairly close. The Bovington Tortoise is a good example of how a meticulously cared for and gently run vehicle from the time had the muffler rust quite quickly after only a few dozen hours of use. Their Tiger shows signs of rust when it's gone a few days without being scraped back down. Below is a picture of the Littlefield Hetzer exhaust and it is a lovingly cared for example. The various runners I saw at the Patton myseum were similar.

Hi all,
Thanks for your comments, very interesting.

Matt, note that I have mentioned only Tiger exhausts. Early panzers were different and I have seen them dark rusted, and for other vehicles I have no knowledge at all..

As for today's preserved Tiger, even considering the exhaust has not been replaced, it was built 70 years ago... so I tend to think it may look different now than when it was one year old .

But anyway it's only my opinion and I am always glad to hear others!

Cheers,

Carlos

Non galvanised sheet steel will oxidise pretty quick when used in high heat applications. Especially in low mileage & short runtime vehicles since condensation will build up quicker. Just like the postal vehicle described earlier in the post.

When they get hot the paint will also bake, especially if it's not made for high heat applications leading to cracking and condensation getting trapped between the steel and paint. Further accelerating the rusting.

I highly doubt the RAL8012 was up to par with todays standards using ceramic resins. If you still doubt it, just look at any random car from Japan built in the 80's. If you can find one that hasn't turned to a heap of rust 20 years ago!

With that said, there is also a possibility that these Tigers are really new or just had a repaint recently.

(Note that the Littlefield Hetzer also sports very unrealistic paint chipping!)

Gentlemen, I've got a silly question for you: Since we're talking Tigers here, how come nobody has even mentioned the Bovington "131"?

I didn't because it's difficult to get photos without the sheet metal shields. That said, you can see the damage after only a few days of running to the paint here



What I have found illuminating is the Saumur running King Tiger. It is very carefully maintained.

Now, here is it post exhibition, so only a matter of several hours of actually running:

And the Munster running Panther, again very carefully maintained inside a building and only run for a few days each year.

Hi Matt,
Thanks for the photos, so beautiful machines...

But let me stress again that this is thin metal *after 70 years* it was built -I doubt the properties remain the same.

And anyway, a theory is as good as it explains observations, no matter how logical it sounds.

I did not choose the images posted on my message to suppoert my view, should I have found dark exhausts I would have used them as well. But I could find only one, of a vehicle coming out from a water stream, so I thought that was not a good reference.

If anyone can post a few clear wartime photos where the Tiger exhaust is darker than the hull, I will have to admit both possibilities are right. And I have no problem doing so! I am just trying to know what is real, not defending my position against all odds

Interestingly enough in the multitude of period photos of Tigers in Tunisia, the scorching of the exhaust shields is not as prevalent as on old 131 seen here. I'm wondering if more modern gasoline has a lot to do with producing higher exhaust temps?

G

In short (not really ), German mogas (for tanks and other vehicles) had a 40 Octane rating; whereas, aviation-grade fuel (avgas) ranged from 87-96 Octane. The higher octane fuel was made almost exclusively for the Luftwaffe because of the requirements for higher performance a/c engines, limited availability of oil (synthetic and crude), and the cost of adding large amounts of tetraethyl lead additive to low quality fuel stocks. The low octane fuel has a tendency to pre-detonate (knock) before full piston compression takes place. This results in lower available horsepower. Although torque is more important than horsepower as it relates to propelling a vehicle, the quality of fuel is why a six cylinder Maybach HL 42 produced only around 140 HP as opposed to a modern four cylinder rice burner producing 200+ HP.

Hi guys, I found a few photos of their resources related to this topic. One of them shows the soot from the exhaust gases and other combustion gases cause rusting of the metal exhaust system. The fact is that the network is very difficult to find pictures of rusty and dirty with soot silencers Tigers.








Paweł

Hi Paweł,
Thanks for the photos, that was exactly my point... it is hard to find rusted exhausts, while light ones are much more common. I have searched also through the whole Tigers In Combat II and did not find a clear shot.

From the ones you posted, the last one is probably due to the fire (in fact the base is the same color) and the other color one, which I have never seen before, looks to me more camo than rust.

Nice sooth on the first one!

Cheers

Carlos

Perhaps this is the camouflage but these spots are very similar to those in the penultimate picture, and the Tiger is probably painted uniformly.

Paweł