I've purchased Dragon's smart kit of the above mentioned tank, and am most likely going to build it into one of those belonging to Kampfgruppe Hansen. Everyone's seen the old newsreel with the Jp IV at Poteau, and that's actually the reason I've got a few questions.
1) the dragon kit has metal side skirts that may be fun to build, but many photos I've seen from both fronts show them without the side skirts. Should mine be modeled without them?
2) The KG Hansen JP's had 3 tone camo with disks... Which seems just as fun as making your own zimmerit. Any recommendations for getting that scheme done? I know there's a few different approaches to it.
Thanks for any help, tips or somments!
-Conor
Hosted by Darren Baker
Jagdpanzer IV in the Ardennes questions
panzerconor
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 1,271 posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2014 - 02:41 AM UTC
SdAufKla
Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2014 - 03:12 AM UTC
Hey Connor,
Can't help you with question re. the side skirts. (Maybe Jer will chime is since he's a fount of All-things BoB knowledge.)
In regards to the ambush scheme, I really like the Uschi v.d. Rosten flexible masks.
Uschi von der Rosten::Disk cammo Masks
For maximum historical correctness, this set of masks from AM-Works is very well researched and has the correct pattern for the factory-applied "licht u. shatten" camouflage for the JagdPz IV.
AM-Works::Vomag Disk Cammo Stencils
HTH,
Can't help you with question re. the side skirts. (Maybe Jer will chime is since he's a fount of All-things BoB knowledge.)
In regards to the ambush scheme, I really like the Uschi v.d. Rosten flexible masks.
Uschi von der Rosten::Disk cammo Masks
For maximum historical correctness, this set of masks from AM-Works is very well researched and has the correct pattern for the factory-applied "licht u. shatten" camouflage for the JagdPz IV.
AM-Works::Vomag Disk Cammo Stencils
HTH,
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2014 - 03:53 AM UTC
I've found a cheaper way to make that circle camo. I bought a package of 1/4" dot stickers from an office supply shop and use them as masks. Spray green - apply your green dot masks; spray brown - apply brown dot masks; then dark yellow base (last). You can overlap dots to make solid areas of color with radius outline, or you can leave little spaces between them to make those little triangular and 'dog-bone' bits seen between circles. It's no different from masking for any other 3-color camo job, except you're using little circle stickers for the mask. You can design your own patterns this way. The only error in this way is that all the circles are the same size, and most of the real camo jobs I've seen use at least 2 different size circles. 
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
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Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2014 - 08:43 AM UTC
The famous film footage does show the vehicle without the shurtzen but these were very new vehicles,having just been issues a few weeks prior to the attack so you could always get away with putting them on and modeling them before the action at Potau?
J
J
pjmurley
Joined: July 06, 2014
KitMaker: 63 posts
Armorama: 52 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2014 - 02:30 PM UTC
I have found a technique to replicate the three tone disc camo, that is both simple and quite fast. I had purchased Dragon's SdKfz 138/1. The art
work on the boxart shows the vehicle with this style camoflage.(DML#6429)
I really liked it and wanted to do something different. At first I thought
that was probably overly complicated and I would be masking and spraying
for hours. Then it came to me. First, I airbrushed the basecoat the dark
yellow with Tamiya acrylic. Next, using Vallejo Panzer Aces colours I took
a wet Q-tip and applied each disc one at a time, following the boxart. I
was done both colours in under an hour, and it turned out to be one of my
best paint jobs. In the end I probably used 20 or more Q-tips, but hey, they are dirt cheap. I would post photos, but this is my first time posting on Armorama, and I'm not sure how to do that yet...
Peter Murley, Toronto, Canada
work on the boxart shows the vehicle with this style camoflage.(DML#6429)
I really liked it and wanted to do something different. At first I thought
that was probably overly complicated and I would be masking and spraying
for hours. Then it came to me. First, I airbrushed the basecoat the dark
yellow with Tamiya acrylic. Next, using Vallejo Panzer Aces colours I took
a wet Q-tip and applied each disc one at a time, following the boxart. I
was done both colours in under an hour, and it turned out to be one of my
best paint jobs. In the end I probably used 20 or more Q-tips, but hey, they are dirt cheap. I would post photos, but this is my first time posting on Armorama, and I'm not sure how to do that yet...
Peter Murley, Toronto, Canada
woodstock74
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
Armorama: 692 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 06, 2014 - 10:22 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I have found a technique to replicate the three tone disc camo, that is both simple and quite fast. I had purchased Dragon's SdKfz 138/1. The art
work on the boxart shows the vehicle with this style camoflage.(DML#6429)
I really liked it and wanted to do something different. At first I thought
that was probably overly complicated and I would be masking and spraying
for hours. Then it came to me. First, I airbrushed the basecoat the dark
yellow with Tamiya acrylic. Next, using Vallejo Panzer Aces colours I took
a wet Q-tip and applied each disc one at a time, following the boxart. I
was done both colours in under an hour, and it turned out to be one of my
best paint jobs. In the end I probably used 20 or more Q-tips, but hey, they are dirt cheap. I would post photos, but this is my first time posting on Armorama, and I'm not sure how to do that yet...
Peter Murley, Toronto, Canada
That's a good first post. Never done the ambush scheme myself and can imagine the Q-tip allows for some diameter randomness that the above mentioned 1/4" dia mask technique doesn't?
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 02:26 AM UTC
But do you get sharp edges with Q-Tips?
AFVFan
Joined: May 17, 2012
KitMaker: 1,980 posts
Armorama: 1,571 posts
Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 02:33 AM UTC
You could probably go either way with the skirts. Keep in mind that they were easily dislodged by encounters with heavy brush and trees
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 03:48 AM UTC
From what I've read, schurtzen were developed to counter Russian AT rifles, but since the Allies didn't use them, they (the schurtzen) were not neccessary on the Western Front. Although you will still see tanks with schurtzen in Normandy, etc.
panzerconor
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 1,271 posts
Armorama: 1,253 posts
Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 11:31 AM UTC
Thanks guys the feedback does help. Think I'll go with the stencils for mine as I don't trust myself with the q-tips. I like the Uschi stencil kit the best I think. Really glad this is something I'll be able to do with rattle can paints, but I may cave and buy a working airbrush, but I've had good results without one. Regarding side skirts, I think I may just go without them...maybe I'll stick a couple on but it's far too soon to say.
Jerry does DITM 1 mention Kampfgruppe Hansen at all? It seems like there's not too much info regarding them after the little spat at Poteau. I'm finding it's a bit difficult to plan my little diorama when books like DITM have it covered down to the hour
Gotta comb through the 2 I have for any further info. Unless anyone else knows anything?
-Conor
Jerry does DITM 1 mention Kampfgruppe Hansen at all? It seems like there's not too much info regarding them after the little spat at Poteau. I'm finding it's a bit difficult to plan my little diorama when books like DITM have it covered down to the hour
Gotta comb through the 2 I have for any further info. Unless anyone else knows anything?-Conor
pjmurley
Joined: July 06, 2014
KitMaker: 63 posts
Armorama: 52 posts
Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 03:30 PM UTC
More on the Q-tip technique. It does give a hard edge to each
single dot, yet when many dots are painted together,it looks like a cohesive camo shade compared to the colour next to it. It is so simple and fast that it is worth trying a test piece.
I had said earlier that I used Vallejo Panzer Aces colours. I am convinced this would not work with Tamiya, or any "solvent"
based acrylic. The trick is to get the Q-tip to the right wetness: not soaking wet. And yes - you get slightly different
sized dots, each time giving that organic field applied look.
I tried to figure out how to upload pics last night, but I'm not great with computers. Maybe you guys can help me...
P..
single dot, yet when many dots are painted together,it looks like a cohesive camo shade compared to the colour next to it. It is so simple and fast that it is worth trying a test piece.
I had said earlier that I used Vallejo Panzer Aces colours. I am convinced this would not work with Tamiya, or any "solvent"
based acrylic. The trick is to get the Q-tip to the right wetness: not soaking wet. And yes - you get slightly different
sized dots, each time giving that organic field applied look.
I tried to figure out how to upload pics last night, but I'm not great with computers. Maybe you guys can help me...
P..
panzerconor
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 1,271 posts
Armorama: 1,253 posts
Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 03:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I tried to figure out how to upload pics last night, but I'm not great with computers. Maybe you guys can help me...
P..
Get an account on either Photobucket or flickr, then copy and paste the link to here. Photobucket has a few, you want the one that says IMG. Flickr is a bit more complex, but there's not photo limit. Here you upload your photos then click on the one you want to post here. There's going to be an arrow on the bottom right below the photo. Click that, and you want the HTMML link.
It's hard to explain over a forum, but it's not too terribly complex of a thing to do. It's practically second nature for me now hahaha
-Conor
pjmurley
Joined: July 06, 2014
KitMaker: 63 posts
Armorama: 52 posts
Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 04:03 PM UTC
Hey Conor -Thanks- I think! It might take me awhile, but I'll figure it out...
P..
P..
Removed by original poster on 07/08/14 - 05:16:44 (GMT).
Removed by original poster on 07/08/14 - 05:17:32 (GMT).
pjmurley
Joined: July 06, 2014
KitMaker: 63 posts
Armorama: 52 posts
Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 05:50 PM UTC
I hope this works...
panzerconor
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 1,271 posts
Armorama: 1,253 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 - 12:53 PM UTC
Wow, that does look effective. I think the one on the JP's is slightly different, as in they looked to have a lot more green and brown rather than yellow. That is an impressive job though, not too heavy and thick. 
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