_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M88(A1/2) recovery question
Jurgen
Visit this Community
Limburg, Belgium
Joined: October 29, 2003
KitMaker: 651 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 03:10 AM UTC
Hiya!
I wanna do one of those (modern type, like being used today...) the M88A2, am I right?! But I have no clue as to who makes these or where to buy them. Can anyone shed a light on this?
Thanks
(I'm in Holland so if anyone knows a European retailer, that would be nice... (shipping costs you know...))
Jurgen
matt
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: February 28, 2002
KitMaker: 5,957 posts
Armorama: 2,956 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 03:47 AM UTC
You'll need the Afv club or Revell Germany M88a1 and the Real Models M88a2 conversion set. The M88 a1 IS still in use with alot of units I believe.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 03:53 AM UTC
I agree with Matt. The three M88 kits on the market (AFV Club M88, M88A1 and the RoG rebox M88A1G) are all basically the same kit with minor adjustments made to produce the stated variant.

AEF Designs makes the M88A2 HERCULES conversion, but there are still more M88A1s in use than there are M88A2s.
Jurgen
Visit this Community
Limburg, Belgium
Joined: October 29, 2003
KitMaker: 651 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 04:14 AM UTC
Okay guys THANKS!
Just bought it... Mol plastic modelbouw

matt
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: February 28, 2002
KitMaker: 5,957 posts
Armorama: 2,956 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 04:21 AM UTC
Just a Tip BE VERY careful on the Headlight Brushguards!!!!!! They're a pain to get off the Sprue!!!
m75
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 666 posts
Armorama: 661 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 04:26 AM UTC
AFV made two versions of the M88, a Vietnam M88 and the improved M88A1. I believe the Vietnam version came with photoetched material that included the headlight brushguards. That was a real benefit, as the plastic ones in the kit tend to self-destruct when removed. I have heard of no good experiences from other modelers regarding the brushguards.
I would also recommend the AFV tracks that are assembled link by link with seperate end connectors. A little work, but GREAT results for a reasonable price.

The AEF conversion looks like a nice build, and is reasonably priced. I might recommend building both the stock M88, than the Hercules to place beside it as a comparison of the two models. As Sabot said, both are in active service today.

Jim Peterson
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 05:05 AM UTC
If you look at the M88A1 detail photos in my motor pool, you will see that they are basically flat pieces of metal welded together. Using thin leftover strips of PE fret, you should be able to cobble together headlight guards that are more accurate than the kit parts. You could also do the same thing with Evergreen styrene strips.
Jurgen
Visit this Community
Limburg, Belgium
Joined: October 29, 2003
KitMaker: 651 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 05:54 AM UTC
Thanks for the tips... can't wait to get started... (those m88's are real monsters!)
Few more questions if I may....:
-M88A1 what is it based on?
-M88A2 is that based on a M1, tracks and stuff looks like a M1or doesn't it?!
-If there is AM to upgrade a M88A1 to a M88A2 what does that looklike then?! Aren't they totally different?
-Does anyone have a review of the AFV M88A1?

Thanks again!
(Can't wait to get started... let's hope it arrives fast!)

Jurgen
pascalbausset
Visit this Community
Moselle, France
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 1,416 posts
Armorama: 1,379 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 05:57 AM UTC
Hi,

Some time ago I have bought the Real Model tranformation kit fot the M88A Hercules.
My kit (and certainly all the others) is very bad, and it will served as plan to scratch the conversion of the AFV M88A1. Only the A boom and the side skirts seems to be correct. The hull is a surmouled AFV part with the new armor plate, very bad conversion (for example the side doors are not straight!! !!!!!!)


Cheers.
matt
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: February 28, 2002
KitMaker: 5,957 posts
Armorama: 2,956 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 06:03 AM UTC
ALL M88's are based on the M48/M60 Chassis
Jurgen
Visit this Community
Limburg, Belgium
Joined: October 29, 2003
KitMaker: 651 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 06:09 AM UTC
Wow Matt, that's fast...
I do believe you, but why do they look different then?!
M88A1;

M88A2Hercules;

Or is it just the side-skirts...?
On the pics I can find, the Hercules looks more sharp-edged....
Anyways thanks for answering so fast!
Jurgen
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 06:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

-M88A1 what is it based on?
Uses the M48 chassis

Quoted Text

-M88A2 is that based on a M1, tracks and stuff looks like a M1or doesn't it?!
New design based on an upgraded M88A1. No relationship to the M1, uses M88 tracks and road wheels, side skirts are not like those of an Abrams. Side armor is added to give the more boxy appearance.

Quoted Text

-If there is AM to upgrade a M88A1 to a M88A2 what does that looklike then?! Aren't they totally different?
AEF Designs, Real Models, may be others. Don't know the quality.

Quoted Text

-Does anyone have a review of the AFV M88A1?

http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/modern/m88/m88.htm
matt
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: February 28, 2002
KitMaker: 5,957 posts
Armorama: 2,956 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 06:23 AM UTC
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m88a1e1.htm

That should explain most of the differences
Jurgen
Visit this Community
Limburg, Belgium
Joined: October 29, 2003
KitMaker: 651 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 06:40 AM UTC
........fast, faster, fast....
Thanks!
HOOAH
RotorHead67
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 07:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for the tips... can't wait to get started... (those m88's are real monsters!)
Few more questions if I may....:
-M88A1 what is it based on?
-M88A2 is that based on a M1, tracks and stuff looks like a M1or doesn't it?!
-If there is AM to upgrade a M88A1 to a M88A2 what does that looklike then?! Aren't they totally different?
-Does anyone have a review of the AFV M88A1?

Thanks again!
(Can't wait to get started... let's hope it arrives fast!)

Jurgen


JURGEN,
SABOT, has got u started in the right direction.
I would not spend the money for the conversion kit that is for the M88A2 tho. All of the changes can be achieved yourself from scratch. and will look a lot better. They are the following:
The M88A2 Hercules:
1) Square tube "A" frame instead of round
2) Aux. whinch on front plate(higher pull rate)
3) Armoured side skirts(not like M1)
4) The upper hull front and sides received additional armor
5) Aux. APU on rear deck to run all functions of operation, instead of having the 88
engine running, to do the same tasks.
6) The AFV bigfoot tracks can be used or the kits ones. They're like the M1, late M60
Type.
If you do a search on the web search for HERCULES not just M88. United Defense web and FAS web has the info you need. Get some detail photos and some referance and do the upgrade / conversion yourself. Good Luck and HAPPY building. Todd
Beaker
Visit this Community
Limburg, Netherlands
Joined: September 28, 2003
KitMaker: 61 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 10:51 AM UTC
Hi Jurgen,

I've build the M88A1 (AFV-Club) last summer. A superb kit. As said earlier this one doesn't have the PE lampbrushes, so you'll have to be carefull while removing them from the sprue. The M88A1 also doens't have the separate track links as the 'Nam version does have, but you can buy them as a separate set from AFV-Club.





Greetings, Hugo
m75
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 666 posts
Armorama: 661 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 11:02 AM UTC
Beaker,
Great looking M88 you posted. The worn portions of the sand color, showing the underlying green, looks very realistic, and is a technique I am still trying to develop. Now, if you only showed the M113 dangling from the boom........ Sounds like another dio in the works!

Jim Peterson
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 12:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

6) The AFV bigfoot tracks can be used or the kits ones. They're like the M1, late M60
Type.
You are talking about four different tracks here. "Bigfoot" or more properly called T158 are late M1A1/A2 style tracks; T156 are the original M1/M1A1 early style tracks with the canted pads; T142 are the late M60/M48 with the replaceable football shaped pads; and the original M48/M60/M88 (T-# escapes me) that are chevron shaped.

All my literature shows the M88A2 with the original chevron shaped track pattern seen on the M88A1.
SSGBruce
Visit this Community
Alabama, United States
Joined: November 28, 2003
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 02:09 PM UTC
http://community.webshots.com/album/57523369BnLKMz

Try this site, I posted a couple of decent photos of an M88A1 here. If you'd like better photos I will be at a training site next week and I'm sure that I can get some good detailed reference photos for you. Just let me know.

SSGBruce
Jurgen
Visit this Community
Limburg, Belgium
Joined: October 29, 2003
KitMaker: 651 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 09:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I've build the M88A1 (AFV-Club) last summer

And wich of those pictures is the 1/1 and wich the 1/35?!
Just kidding... it looks great!

(now let's see if I can do that too... )
RotorHead67
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 10:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

6) The AFV bigfoot tracks can be used or the kits ones. They're like the M1, late M60
Type.
You are talking about four different tracks here. "Bigfoot" or more properly called T158 are late M1A1/A2 style tracks; T156 are the original M1/M1A1 early style tracks with the canted pads; T142 are the late M60/M48 with the replaceable football shaped pads; and the original M48/M60/M88 (T-# escapes me) that are chevron shaped.

All my literature shows the M88A2 with the original chevron shaped track pattern seen on the M88A1.


DA FUHER:
The "T" that escapes you.......? HHMM maybe T149. Fitted to 88's after the Traction tests conducted @ Abordeen Proving Grounds' north test area. Track Block resembles a rectangle on an angle w/ the corners cut off. Right?
Alky
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: April 10, 2003
KitMaker: 33 posts
Armorama: 13 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 07:28 AM UTC
Back in April of this year our company neede to move three M109 A2's. One of them ran but the other two were dead. The Sgt. and his crew there used a M88A1 to load the dead ones on our RGN's. Awesome power those things have. The driver did a great job of pushing those 109'son the trailers. Those 88's sure can tear up the ground. Naturally it was raining out to make things more interesting.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 09:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

DA FUHER:
This supposed to be a shot at me? If you are going to try to insult someone, at least learn to spell.
RotorHead67
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 03:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

DA FUHER:
This supposed to be a shot at me? If you are going to try to insult someone, at least learn to spell.


SABOT:
By NO means an insult sir. A reflection of how Knowledgable you are, and that you,
pointed out a little detail that had escaped me as well. After I posted the info, I reflected, and thought that the "Bigfoot" referance could have meant the M1A1 late or M1A2 which they are commonlly refered to. I did not mean to make him think they were like the current M1 tracks,
but yet I didn't mean the kit tracks solely either. I had forgotten about the T142's and in my mind was the T158's, but they are more of the Chevron looking type that you mentioned.
Im not ABSOLUTELY possative about the T149 call tho, but I do know that the pads I have seen in person are not like the 142 or 158 , they're like I described of a bigger boxy rectangle w/ the corners cut off. and these are @ and angle on the pad.
Sabot: you have more access to all the ARMIES toys, so I thought you would clear it up, and that was my only presumption of the referance. thats all. no degradation.!!
Removed by original poster on 08/30/08 - 19:10:26 (GMT).
 _GOTOTOP