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Dragon: Black Label M103 Rebuild
SgtRam
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AEROSCALE
#197
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 12:00 PM UTC


An announcement from Dragon Models has a second version of the M103 coming in the Black Label series.

Read the Full News Story

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
Spuds
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 02:34 PM UTC
A modified turret? Let's hope so.
TopSmith
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 03:20 PM UTC
So... they can now include the modified turret in the A1 kit?
tankmodeler
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 04:18 PM UTC
This is the expected M103A2 kit and, if the kit matches the CAD images, then, no, they have NOT _fixed_ the turret. They have modified it to have the A2 features, such as the searchlight and the receptacle for the searchlight cable on the turret roof plus several other small changes. But that seems to be it for the turret.

In addition, of course they made the necessary changes to make the A2 such as the engine deck fenders, air cleaners, stowage boxes, etc. etc. etc. But it doesn't look like the hull nose has been corrected either. With the new rear engine louvers, the kinked back plate disappears, so that's one fix, but the fact that their advertising calls the air cleaner box a muffler makes me think they still haven't done any additional research.

Paul
pespada
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 02:47 AM UTC
Many, but not all of the A2 parts (including some of the searchlight parts, but not all--drat!) were included in the A1 kit. This A2 kit is not going to be a stretch by any means.
Tankrider
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 02:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This is the expected M103A2 kit and, if the kit matches the CAD images, then, no, they have NOT _fixed_ the turret. They have modified it to have the A2 features, such as the searchlight and the receptacle for the searchlight cable on the turret roof plus several other small changes. But that seems to be it for the turret.

In addition, of course they made the necessary changes to make the A2 such as the engine deck fenders, air cleaners, stowage boxes, etc. etc. etc. But it doesn't look like the hull nose has been corrected either. With the new rear engine louvers, the kinked back plate disappears, so that's one fix, but the fact that their advertising calls the air cleaner box a muffler makes me think they still haven't done any additional research.

Paul



The grill doors for the new engine deck are the reinforced ones that are found in the two M48 kits (one correctly, the M48A3 Mod B and one, not so much, the earlier M48A3). So an althernate grill doors maight have to be an option with modifying the kit part or possinbly getting the DEF models M48A3 update, if it fits...

John
pespada
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 03:33 AM UTC
One big question--with this kit have the mantlet cover that was conspicuously missing from the A1 kit? Or will this be an addition similar to what they did between the two M48 kits?
BigfootV
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 03:58 AM UTC
Hey gang,

The parts are already there in the A1 kit to do an A2.

Here's the stuff from the A1 kit for the rear deck.













Also the travel lock, boxes are for the M48, fenders, are all there. The only part missing is the "new" outlet piping.



Fender for A2 mod. with paint shown here above turret.

The A1 kit has M48 sprues that can be redone for the A2. The M48/M60 and M103A2 rear decks were done so they can switch out motors and other parts to cut repair costs and time down in the field.

So why is Dragon wasting money on a redo?

See ya in the funnies........................
Biggles2
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 04:10 AM UTC
The only money they are wasting is on the new packaging, but if they can catch suckers thinking it is an improved version, it might be worth it (to Dragon).
BigfootV
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 04:20 AM UTC
Guess we'll have to wait and see.



210cav
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 09:24 AM UTC
The key question for any potential buyer: Do you believe Dragon can turn the current M-103A1 chicken poo-poo into an M-103A2 chicken salad model?
Biggles2
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Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2014 - 02:28 AM UTC
It all depends on how tasty the dressing is!
ninjrk
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Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2014 - 03:12 AM UTC
It would be very nice if they did revamp the kit. I have to admit I don't expect Dragon to revamp the kit to an accurate level. I'd be happy to be proven wrong but I wouldn't preorder one. . .
redraider
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Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2014 - 03:58 AM UTC
I hope you guys will grant a general amnesty to anyone who may to want buy it and build it. Hey they may even want to post it here without being ignored or made to feel foolish for daring to build such steaming pile of poo that the model might be. If I sound angry you're right and no I don't work for Dragon.

Terry
retiredyank
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Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2014 - 06:33 AM UTC
Shame on Dragon. Were it not for their German armor and adequate Shermans, they would make my BLACK LIST. It is nice to see Trumpeter getting back into WWII armor.
hugohuertas
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Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 - 04:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I hope you guys will grant a general amnesty to anyone who may to want buy it and build it. Hey they may even want to post it here without being ignored or made to feel foolish for daring to build such steaming pile of poo that the model might be. If I sound angry you're right and no I don't work for Dragon.

Terry



I can't see why you are angry. Dragon's M103 kit IS crap, just that simple.
But I either didn't see anyone here blaming other modellers for spending their money and efforts in plainly BAD kits.
What you can find here, as always, is some excelent, free and unbiased advice about new kits and their shortcomings and hilights, and some arguing about if what you get for your money is reasonable or not -since the latter is quite subjective-.

I failed to see anyone blaming or "condemning" other people for building -f.e.- Trumpeter's ancient T-55 kits
There's a thread on the Soviet fórum of a guy buildin' three of them, and guess what? Nobody claimed he is nuts or asked moderators to ban him from the world of modelling.
And I can assure you that those kits are only a bit more than "toys", so if the guy gets a decent result from them I will clap him with no doubt, instead of criticizing him for having bought'em in the first place.

Anyway, if any advice about a new kit's mistakes makes you feel upset, just ignore it and go for the kit you want, its your choice and your $$$.
I am grateful for this kind of advice because it saves me from placing pre-orders or buying some kits that later I will highly regret.
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Monday, August 18, 2014 - 06:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The parts are already there in the A1 kit to do an A2.


Not quite all of them, I do believe the actual engine deck is missing at the very least and I can't rememebr if the A2 air cleaners are in my A1 kit or not.


Quoted Text

So why is Dragon wasting money on a redo?


Actually, I don't think they are. I suspect the tool for the M48 engine deck is simplt being used in the M103 sprue. These injection moulding tools can be made modular and all it takes is to swap out a piece of the modular tool for another to allow the new version to be made.

Paul
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Monday, August 18, 2014 - 06:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

One big question--with this kit have the mantlet cover that was conspicuously missing from the A1 kit? Or will this be an addition similar to what they did between the two M48 kits?



Frankly, I don't _want_ them to add a mantlet cover. I find that attempts to mould such covers almost always fail to capture the look of the fabric and they limit the elevation I can set the gun tube to on my model. I prefer the freedom to position the tube as I like and I can then easily make the cover with epoxy putty. It's not that hard at all.

Paul
Vodnik
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Posted: Monday, August 18, 2014 - 06:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Actually, I don't think they are. I suspect the tool for the M48 engine deck is simplt being used in the M103 sprue.


Not possible. Yes, it would be reasonable way to do it, but Dragon wasted that opportunity when they molded the M103 hull about half inch too long... Unless they prepare some new adapter part to go between the turret and the engine deck, there is no way M48 deck is going to fit.
kris1983
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Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2014 - 08:33 AM UTC
Hello to everybody. Just have a look at the update pictures of this kit:
http://www.dragonusaonline.com/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=DRA3549
Judging by this picture the shape of the turret is much better now. Can anybody estimate any other differences and improvements in comparison with bad first M103 dragon kit?
jwest21
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Posted: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 - 04:51 AM UTC
The instructions are up- maybe that will help determine whether its been improved.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10285661
18Bravo
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Posted: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 - 05:03 AM UTC
Whether it's improved or not, don't buy it. If you know me, be happy with that knowledge, and don't ask questions I won't answer here.
jwest21
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Posted: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 - 07:02 AM UTC
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