while looking online about what kind of stowage a merkava might have on it,bedrolls,coolers,water bottles,stretchers.I
notice really not that much was seen tide to the sides of the stowage bins or inside of it.I'm hoping the book I just orderd on the MKIIId will show something.Does anyone have pictures of what they would carry on them.The book I am getting is from desert publishing merkava siman IIID.
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merkava stowage
jekrott
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 07:27 AM UTC
rfbaer
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 10:44 AM UTC
The only pics I have ever seen (or have) of a Merkava with anything on the outside of the basket are of Merkava 1's with a couple of bedrolls tied on during the later stages of Op. Peace for Galilee, and it's unusual even then. I imagine somebody will surely have that one pic that proves me wrong, but it seems like since then, everything goes inside the basket or it stays home. Keep in mind that it's considered a fire hazard to have a full basket during urban operations, but I'm guessing that since Beirut is a long was from home, that rule may have been stretched in 1982. What I have seen in turret baskets are ration boxes, water cans, bed rolls, coolers and other relatively "soft" stowage. If there's an ammo crate in there, it will not have shells in it.
Helpful?
Helpful?
didgeboy
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 12:19 PM UTC
Try doing a google images search for Protective Edge Merkava and you will get what you are looking for.
jekrott
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 12:35 PM UTC
That was just what I was looking for,its a far cry of what our US troops would carry!Now I think its time to break out my Meng Merkava kit and all the extras I have and some I'm waiting for!I can't wait for this book to come.
cwo-3
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 01:09 PM UTC
Armor in urban environment warfare don’t usually carry a lot of items that can ignite or be stolen. One of the reasons the US lost an Abrams in OIF is because the vehicle was hit by an RPG. No penetration but it hit stowage in the bustle rack causing a fire that dripped molten nylon into the engine bay and catching the tank on fire. Our vehicles on the March up to Bagdad in 2003 looked like a Gypsies or the Clampetts. They carried a myriad of items ranging from extra ammo to sh*t stools. Later in the conflict you didn’t see a lot of exterior gear.
For the Israelis, I would think that the Merkavas and other vehicles are out on patrol for a day or 2 and carry what they need, water, ice chest etc. The rest is at their lagger at the FOB.
For the Israelis, I would think that the Merkavas and other vehicles are out on patrol for a day or 2 and carry what they need, water, ice chest etc. The rest is at their lagger at the FOB.
jekrott
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 02:02 PM UTC
I see what you are talking about no need for a lot of gear for such a short amount of time in the field.So I think I'll keep it down to a little above bone minimal.watercoolers,bottles and such
didgeboy
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 04:11 PM UTC
Mike is right but the issue is not from lessons learned so much as from logistical needs. An army on the march needs to carry damn near everything with them, ask me how I know. An army or platoon that is operating from a FOB (forward operating base) as during the post 2004 OIF missions only needs items for that days patrols. The tank that was lost during the march into Baghdad was C12 Cajon Eh and was hit bit am RPG between two of the skirts and penetrated a fuel line, it was literally a one in a million shot. This caused a fire that was not extinguishable on the move and so the and was disabled and destroyed in place by a thermite grenade, a sabot round and finally a maverik missile. So if the IDF is operating from a FOB they might not carry much kit, or it might just be really well stowed so that it does not get destroyed by small arms and RPG fire. If you look through those photos you will see on the Mk IV's the sloped armor has panels that lift up and might be used for stowage. Other items are most likely covered in the bustle, for dust, visibility or just for limited protection. Cheers.
rfbaer
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 04:05 AM UTC
Here's a shot of the basket on the Mark1 I'm currently doing:
I wouldn't even have the bedrolls outside, but I'm working from a pic, and the tank in the pic has them hung this way, and the pic is captiond as being taken in Beirut, 1982. It's a very common picture. Interestingly enough, Magach crews typically hung these same type bedrolls from the turret side rails.
Regarding later and current stuff, go with what's been said by Damon and Mike, for sure, which would also apply to the early 80's period as well.
I wouldn't even have the bedrolls outside, but I'm working from a pic, and the tank in the pic has them hung this way, and the pic is captiond as being taken in Beirut, 1982. It's a very common picture. Interestingly enough, Magach crews typically hung these same type bedrolls from the turret side rails.
Regarding later and current stuff, go with what's been said by Damon and Mike, for sure, which would also apply to the early 80's period as well.
Blespooky
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 04:45 AM UTC
To add a little more, Mike is correct,
During training Israeli soldiers will take everything imaginable with them, including lounge chairs, old crates for nighttime bonfires and more. Reservists are notorious for bringing insane things like tents, shower robes and even sofas out to the field. All of these things can be seen strapped to the roofs of armored vehicles and Hummers.
When things turn real however, there will be the absolute minimum on the outside of vehicles because there is always a logistics dump close by and professionalism dictates more objective thinking, this is even true for reservists. Although on second thought a cooler with ice, Cola and Bamba will be present no matter how charged and dangerous the situation.
Bryan
During training Israeli soldiers will take everything imaginable with them, including lounge chairs, old crates for nighttime bonfires and more. Reservists are notorious for bringing insane things like tents, shower robes and even sofas out to the field. All of these things can be seen strapped to the roofs of armored vehicles and Hummers.
When things turn real however, there will be the absolute minimum on the outside of vehicles because there is always a logistics dump close by and professionalism dictates more objective thinking, this is even true for reservists. Although on second thought a cooler with ice, Cola and Bamba will be present no matter how charged and dangerous the situation.
Bryan
jekrott
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 06:23 AM UTC
That's funny you bring up a sofa,I did see 1 picture of a crew man passed put sleep on 1!I'm still up in the air on what I will put on my model,trying to gather my thoughts and find that 1 tank pic to build off of.All of the responses are helping greatly!
rfbaer
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 07:03 AM UTC
I just had a dio idea pop into my already crowded head.....