thx 
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about the 11th Armored Cav
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2014 - 09:12 AM UTC
were tank only elements referred to as troop or company? thx
thx 
tanknick22
Joined: February 19, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2014 - 10:17 AM UTC
Tank units in armored cav regiments and cav units in other heavy units are called troops, where as tanks in armored and mechanized infantry units are in companies, a troop and a company is about the same size
in cav units :
troop
squadron
regiment
in armored and mech infantry :
company
brigade
batallion
I hope this helps
in cav units :
troop
squadron
regiment
in armored and mech infantry :
company
brigade
batallion
I hope this helps
TankSGT
Joined: July 25, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2014 - 11:25 AM UTC
As a former member of the 11th I can say that the troops are a mix of tanks and APCs or CFVs. Each Squadron also had a pure tank company which was referred to as a company. The howitzer unit was called a battery.
That's how it was in my day anyway. I would have to check the current TO&E to see if they still have a tank company.
Tom
That's how it was in my day anyway. I would have to check the current TO&E to see if they still have a tank company.
Tom
Charlie-66
#186
Joined: May 24, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2014 - 01:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
were tank only elements referred to as troop or company?
I served in the 3rd ACR, sister regiment of the 11th from 1982-86. In that period each Squadron had a tank company.
1st Squadron had "D": Delta Company
2nd Squadron had "H": Officially "Hotel" but we all called it Heavy Company
3rd Squadron had M; Mike Company
Hope that helps.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2014 - 02:00 PM UTC
I'm also a "graduate" of the 11th Cavalry. Tank Companies (M60) were called companies, M551 equipped units were troops, and every squadron had a battery of M109 Howitzers. The Headquarters unit (which contained the Support Platoon of M35, M54s and other assorted stuff) was called the HHT-- (Headquarters Troop). In the 11th ACR of the 1960's through the 1990s, there were 12 "line" units, labeled A-L, with A,B,C,E,F,G,I,J,K, "Troops" consisted of 3 platoons each of six M551's,3 M113s, and an M106 mortar carrier. D,H,L "companies were the M60 tank companies, with three platoons of 5 M60A1s (later A3s)in each platoon for a total of 17 tanks per Company (The Troop commander and XO each had a tank, the XOs was a "blade" tank). The Howitzer Battery was just referred to as the 1,2,3 How Btry depending on the Squadron assigned. I started out in H Company, and moved to F Troop (no, Corporal Agarn was NOT in my troop). I ended up as the XO of the HHT, and later as the assistant S4 of the Squadron (there was no S4 for a long while, so for a while I was the guy). The S4 also had a an M60 tank, it was the Squadron "float" tank, but it was kept in reserve as a replacement vehicle if another tank had to be returned for maintenance. The staff elements (commander, S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, Support Platoon (those Trucks again) were all assigned to the HHT. An interesting side note-- we never referred to "H" Company as "Hotel" Company (as in the phonetic alphabet) but we always called the regiment's other two pure tank companies by either "Delta" or "Lima" companies. The Cavalry troops were almost always referred to in the phonetic (as in "Alpha", "Delta", Foxtrot", "Golf" troop, etc). This is probably more than you wanted to know, hope this "short" tutorial helps you sort it all out!
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
nikon1
Joined: April 11, 2005
KitMaker: 622 posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2014 - 02:25 PM UTC
I'm going to through a wrench into this. I was in the 69th Inf brigade which comprised 1/237 inf regiment, 2/137 inf regiment, 1/635 AR Bn and 2/635 AR Bn and one Sqdn of Cav Scouts. 69th Inf Bde was the last heavy brigade until June 1994 when the colors were cased due to de-activation.
Charlie
Charlie
Kenaicop
#384
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2014 - 04:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Textwere tank only elements referred to as troop or company?
I served in the 3rd ACR, sister regiment of the 11th from 1982-86. In that period each Squadron had a tank company.
1st Squadron had "D": Delta Company
2nd Squadron had "H": Officially "Hotel" but we all called it Heavy Company
3rd Squadron had M; Mike Company
Hope that helps.
What unit guy? I was HHT 1/3 and D Co. 1/3 from 85 to 89
TankSGT
Joined: July 25, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2014 - 08:54 PM UTC
I was in Alpha Troop at Fulda when we transitioned from M551s to M60A1 RISE Passive a platoon had 4 M60s, 4 113s and a mortar track. Delta or Tank company shared our barracks.
Tom
Tom
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2014 - 10:32 PM UTC
AARRRGGHHH to much data :runaway: shoulda said this was for Vietnam, but thx anyway ya'll. have a cookie (::); those are raisons, not flies 
.
so, the bumper code that woulda been used isn't what tam has 1-TK2 . I can use their 11ACR. just havn't found a suitable pic from before the G305 riser was in use that has the company. got squadron's M48 in Vietnam but I'm not sure about some pix.
turned into a 11th ACR reunion lol
.so, the bumper code that woulda been used isn't what tam has 1-TK2 . I can use their 11ACR. just havn't found a suitable pic from before the G305 riser was in use that has the company. got squadron's M48 in Vietnam but I'm not sure about some pix.
turned into a 11th ACR reunion lol
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
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Posted: Friday, September 12, 2014 - 11:22 AM UTC
Not a Black Horse alum but a lover of the mystery of US bumper codes. Bumper codes are not necessarily an exact fit for the TO&E.
There were the combined troops of PC.s, Mortar tracks and tanks plus a dedicated tank company. So 11ACR 1-TK2 could be 11 th ACR, first tank company tank number 2. It could also be 1st squadron tank number 2. Often Tk for tank did not indicate a specific unit, just a pool of tanks used by the organization as a whole.
Unit SOP for codes used will vary.
There were the combined troops of PC.s, Mortar tracks and tanks plus a dedicated tank company. So 11ACR 1-TK2 could be 11 th ACR, first tank company tank number 2. It could also be 1st squadron tank number 2. Often Tk for tank did not indicate a specific unit, just a pool of tanks used by the organization as a whole.
Unit SOP for codes used will vary.
TankSGT
Joined: July 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
Armorama: 946 posts
Posted: Friday, September 12, 2014 - 10:25 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Not a Black Horse alum but a lover of the mystery of US bumper codes. Bumper codes are not necessarily an exact fit for the TO&E.
There were the combined troops of PC.s, Mortar tracks and tanks plus a dedicated tank company. So 11ACR 1-TK2 could be 11 th ACR, first tank company tank number 2. It could also be 1st squadron tank number 2. Often Tk for tank did not indicate a specific unit, just a pool of tanks used by the organization as a whole.
Unit SOP for codes used will vary.
Hi Stephen glad to see you on the site.
Tom
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
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Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2014 - 09:46 AM UTC
Good to be here. 
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
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Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2014 - 11:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Not a Black Horse alum but a lover of the mystery of US bumper codes. Bumper codes are not necessarily an exact fit for the TO&E.
There were the combined troops of PC.s, Mortar tracks and tanks plus a dedicated tank company. So 11ACR 1-TK2 could be 11 th ACR, first tank company tank number 2. It could also be 1st squadron tank number 2. Often Tk for tank did not indicate a specific unit, just a pool of tanks used by the organization as a whole.
Unit SOP for codes used will vary.
you might find this on interest, tho I think where he says troop he might mean squadron?
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=562116&postcount=6
and this from same thread
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=562482&postcount=13
full thread
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42976
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 14, 2014 - 02:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextNot a Black Horse alum but a lover of the mystery of US bumper codes. Bumper codes are not necessarily an exact fit for the TO&E.
There were the combined troops of PC.s, Mortar tracks and tanks plus a dedicated tank company. So 11ACR 1-TK2 could be 11 th ACR, first tank company tank number 2. It could also be 1st squadron tank number 2. Often Tk for tank did not indicate a specific unit, just a pool of tanks used by the organization as a whole.
Unit SOP for codes used will vary.
you might find this on interest, tho I think where he says troop he might mean squadron?
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=562116&postcount=6
and this from same thread
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=562482&postcount=13
full thread
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42976
I was talking about bumper codes they're all talking about TO&E. None of them answer the question about 1-TK-2 being an accurate code for an M48.
Everything points to an M48A3 belonging to the tank company could and probably would have had the code 1-tk-2 as in 1st tank company tank number 2.
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 14, 2014 - 09:08 AM UTC
thought you might've been interested...oh well. tam has it at 1st tank company 2nd platoon. still don't know what's what
Tankrider
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,208 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2014 - 03:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
thought you might've been interested...oh well. tam has it at 1st tank company 2nd platoon. still don't know what's what
Hmmm, maybe Tamiya might have the markings wrong... You have had several vets from 11 Cav reply that there were three tank companies in the Regiment, one per ground cavalry squadron - the same in VN as is West Germany, back when the Wall was up and th e11 & 2nd ACRs patrolled the German & Czech borders. Also, US cavalry unit organization names are slightly different than Commonwealth ones:
- US Platoon = Commonwealth Troop
- US Troop = Squadron
- US Squadron = Regiment
Google "11th ACR tanks in Viet Nam" and look at the pictures. Most M48A3s will be from either D, H, or M Companies. The bumper numbers were either located just above or just below the "beak" on the front of the hull and on the access plates, below the grill doors. The numbers are usually D, H or M and the platoon (1-3), then vehicle number (1-5 or 2-6).
If you desire specific bumper numbers, a couple techniques are available to you. You could hand paint the numbers (there are photo references out there)or use dry transfers and apply them to clear decal paper that can be either left clear or painted to match the vehicle before the transfers are applied.
HTH
John
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2014 - 08:50 AM UTC
I've gone thru so many pix I'm damn near bug eyed, but I think I've come up with something. the Soui Cat Ambush. D company showed up to support B Troop, as I've an ACAV, it'll be the one that survived, that would go together with the M48
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 - 06:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
AARRRGGHHH to much data :runaway: shoulda said this was for Vietnam, but thx anyway ya'll. have a cookie (::); those are raisons, not flies
so, the bumper code that woulda been used isn't what tam has 1-TK2 . I can use their 11ACR. just havn't found a suitable pic from before the G305 riser was in use that has the company. got squadron's M48 in Vietnam but I'm not sure about some pix.
turned into a 11th ACR reunion lol
CAV units always refer back to Troops, but with one exception. Sometimes they carry infantry with them, and these revert back to standard infantry. The troops are normally lettered with the exception of Headquarters Troop. A troop is similar to a Company sized element. Yet they will break the troop down into regular platoons.
An example:
The 1st of the 1st Armored Cav had Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, and Echo troops. Plus a Headquarters Troop. Sometimes the Delta or Echo Troop was replaced with the Headquarters Troop, but even then the Headquarters Troop was often held back as the rear guard. All that means is that they have no assigned area of operations like the others do. In these troops there was a Recon Platoon, a rifle platoon, and sometimes a lead platoon.
gary
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