I'm just starting the Hobby Boss Panther D Flak Bergepanther , did all panther D's have zimmerit.I've read where not many D' s had the zimmerit coating. Is that the case or not need to know before proceeding with this build. also what zimmerit mfg. is the better one atak ,cavalier eduard or some other.
Thanks
Hosted by Darren Baker
Panther D zimmerit
Rforand
Joined: July 14, 2013
KitMaker: 108 posts
Armorama: 89 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 16, 2014 - 10:35 PM UTC
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Friday, October 17, 2014 - 02:14 AM UTC
Bob;
The quick and dirty is that the Panther D did not come new with factory zimmerit - D production preceded the factory application directive.
So... the Panthers showing up at Kursk, 1943, where the type battle-debuted, wore no zimm. Those Panthers which survived Kursk, however, were, in some cases, sent back for repairs and refurbishment and upgrades. SOME of these may have been zimmerited during refurbishment, resulting in a small number of "D with factory-like zimm jobs". One or two new D may also have been "factory-zimm'd" as prototype vehicles (and I think that the Dragon D-with-zimm kit may represent one of these rare D's). There were also probably a few or several D which received rear-shop zimm applications at the front...
Switching over to the Panther D odd-balls (berge D w/ Pz IV turm, berge D w/ FlaK)... these were later unit conversions using available berge hulls. Each one of these odd-balls was a one-off rarity. The berge / IV command tank apparently had a zimm'd hull from the few photos I have seen. Did the other berge D used also have zimm? I don't know! I've never seen any good photos which would categorically vote on that yeah or nay (not that I have looked much for them!
)!
The berge D were converted from damaged gun-tanks sent back to the refurbishment center. No "new" berge D were ever produced from the factory. These used D hulls may well have been "factory zimm'd" at that refurb point, resulting in berge D with zimm. With regard to the berge / IV command tank, I am not sure whether the expert jury has concluded that it had "factory zimm application" from refurbishment, or that it's zimm was a field-shop application job. The same discussion would attend any of these other odd berge D conversions (zimm, Y or N, "factory" or "field" if Y).
Barring some evidence to the contrary, I would suggest that you could skip the zimm if you wish - your odd-ball was a converted D berge. IF you go zimm, I would DIY (my approach), or I would go with the ATAK or Cavalier resin stuff, which looks pretty good, IMHO.
Bob
The quick and dirty is that the Panther D did not come new with factory zimmerit - D production preceded the factory application directive.
So... the Panthers showing up at Kursk, 1943, where the type battle-debuted, wore no zimm. Those Panthers which survived Kursk, however, were, in some cases, sent back for repairs and refurbishment and upgrades. SOME of these may have been zimmerited during refurbishment, resulting in a small number of "D with factory-like zimm jobs". One or two new D may also have been "factory-zimm'd" as prototype vehicles (and I think that the Dragon D-with-zimm kit may represent one of these rare D's). There were also probably a few or several D which received rear-shop zimm applications at the front...
Switching over to the Panther D odd-balls (berge D w/ Pz IV turm, berge D w/ FlaK)... these were later unit conversions using available berge hulls. Each one of these odd-balls was a one-off rarity. The berge / IV command tank apparently had a zimm'd hull from the few photos I have seen. Did the other berge D used also have zimm? I don't know! I've never seen any good photos which would categorically vote on that yeah or nay (not that I have looked much for them!
)!The berge D were converted from damaged gun-tanks sent back to the refurbishment center. No "new" berge D were ever produced from the factory. These used D hulls may well have been "factory zimm'd" at that refurb point, resulting in berge D with zimm. With regard to the berge / IV command tank, I am not sure whether the expert jury has concluded that it had "factory zimm application" from refurbishment, or that it's zimm was a field-shop application job. The same discussion would attend any of these other odd berge D conversions (zimm, Y or N, "factory" or "field" if Y).
Barring some evidence to the contrary, I would suggest that you could skip the zimm if you wish - your odd-ball was a converted D berge. IF you go zimm, I would DIY (my approach), or I would go with the ATAK or Cavalier resin stuff, which looks pretty good, IMHO.
Bob
Rforand
Joined: July 14, 2013
KitMaker: 108 posts
Armorama: 89 posts
Posted: Friday, October 17, 2014 - 08:01 AM UTC
Ok thanks Bob it's what I was planning on doing but wanted another opinion
bob
bob
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Friday, October 17, 2014 - 07:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Bob;
The quick and dirty is that the Panther D did not come new with factory zimmerit - D production preceded the factory application directive.
So... the Panthers showing up at Kursk, 1943, where the type battle-debuted, wore no zimm. Those Panthers which survived Kursk, however, were, in some cases, sent back for repairs and refurbishment and upgrades. SOME of these may have been zimmerited during refurbishment, resulting in a small number of "D with factory-like zimm jobs". One or two new D may also have been "factory-zimm'd" as prototype vehicles (and I think that the Dragon D-with-zimm kit may represent one of these rare D's). There were also probably a few or several D which received rear-shop zimm applications at the front...
Switching over to the Panther D odd-balls (berge D w/ Pz IV turm, berge D w/ FlaK)... these were later unit conversions using available berge hulls. Each one of these odd-balls was a one-off rarity. The berge / IV command tank apparently had a zimm'd hull from the few photos I have seen. Did the other berge D used also have zimm? I don't know! I've never seen any good photos which would categorically vote on that yeah or nay (not that I have looked much for them!
The berge D were converted from damaged gun-tanks sent back to the refurbishment center. No "new" berge D were ever produced from the factory. These used D hulls may well have been "factory zimm'd" at that refurb point, resulting in berge D with zimm. With regard to the berge / IV command tank, I am not sure whether the expert jury has concluded that it had "factory zimm application" from refurbishment, or that it's zimm was a field-shop application job. The same discussion would attend any of these other odd berge D conversions (zimm, Y or N, "factory" or "field" if Y).
Barring some evidence to the contrary, I would suggest that you could skip the zimm if you wish - your odd-ball was a converted D berge. IF you go zimm, I would DIY (my approach), or I would go with the ATAK or Cavalier resin stuff, which looks pretty good, IMHO.
Bob
Hang on, the first Bergepanthers issued for Kursk (just turretless Panther Ausf. D tanks without a winch or spade) were purpose-built in May, 1943, from the small batch of Panthers built by Henschel (before it was decided they would build only Tigers). And of course, like the Panther tanks at Kursk, they were all delivered without Zimmerit.
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 18, 2014 - 09:27 AM UTC
I'll take you on faith, Gerald, about whether any berge D were purpose-built at the factory from May 1943! I was pretty sure that no berge D was built at the factory prior to Kursk, nor any built new as D at all afterwards, but only as conversions on refurbed hulls. I could stand corrected on that!
This may all be beside the point, however, as no D gun or berge came along with factory zimm (as you, too, note) - which I think is the driver question, here. Gun D and berge D would very most likely only have a "factory-like zimm job" were they to have been sent back for major rebuild and refurb sometime after Kursk and after SEP 1943. Any other D with zimm would perforce have to have been one of a possible few done at a shop - except perhaps for that one or 2 prototype zimm jobs possibly portrayed in that Dragon D w/ zimm kit.
My recommendation as to zimm on that berge D FlaKpanzer remains... not likely. But if one wants to do zimm... I like DIY and I think that the resin sheet zimm stuff looks pretty good.
Bob
This may all be beside the point, however, as no D gun or berge came along with factory zimm (as you, too, note) - which I think is the driver question, here. Gun D and berge D would very most likely only have a "factory-like zimm job" were they to have been sent back for major rebuild and refurb sometime after Kursk and after SEP 1943. Any other D with zimm would perforce have to have been one of a possible few done at a shop - except perhaps for that one or 2 prototype zimm jobs possibly portrayed in that Dragon D w/ zimm kit.
My recommendation as to zimm on that berge D FlaKpanzer remains... not likely. But if one wants to do zimm... I like DIY and I think that the resin sheet zimm stuff looks pretty good.
Bob
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.