Hey all,
I am sure there is a discussion somewhere within the site concerning trees but I would rather start a new one and gather your comments rather than go looking for an old one. So here goes.
John and Kurt's dioramas are in my opinion awesome examples of making trees for dioramas. My isue is that I do not know how to build them. Their dios have raised many questions for me and I am hoping that I can get a discussion going regarding what materials different people use, different processes and the such.
So what materials do you use to replicate the wood, the leaves, the pine needles. Do you use wooden dowels for the trees and then replicate the bark or do you use dried roots as the base? I have seen some PE leaves but are they good and are they realistic looking once mounted?
What process or method do you use in building your foiliage?
Now this does not have to limited to trees. This dicsussion can include bushes and shrubs as well.
I appreciate your involvement and look forward to discussion this with everyone.
Dave
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Trees
rolltide31
#377
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 1,481 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 01:20 AM UTC
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 02:40 AM UTC
Here are some bare trees made with wire armatures and plaster
Here are trees made with a plant root and wire armature branches on the left(dead tree) and a dowl and plumosa fern on the right(pine trees)
Here is a small maple tree made with a root for the main trunk and branches with a cleaning pad stretched out on top for the smaller branches,topped off with laser cut paper leaves.
Some examples to think about. If you want to see a mind-blowing fir tree look up Claudes' thread on building"Clervaux". That is the finest model pine I have ever seen and the willow tree there is not too shabby either.
It is.like all modeling,all about how much time you want to spend on something as a lot of these techniques are not expensive,just time consuming.
J
Here are trees made with a plant root and wire armature branches on the left(dead tree) and a dowl and plumosa fern on the right(pine trees)
Here is a small maple tree made with a root for the main trunk and branches with a cleaning pad stretched out on top for the smaller branches,topped off with laser cut paper leaves.
Some examples to think about. If you want to see a mind-blowing fir tree look up Claudes' thread on building"Clervaux". That is the finest model pine I have ever seen and the willow tree there is not too shabby either.
It is.like all modeling,all about how much time you want to spend on something as a lot of these techniques are not expensive,just time consuming.
J
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 02:57 AM UTC
This is one of my favorite places for trees, and foliage, etc. http://www.scenicexpress.com/ Their Super Sage and Super Tree materials are a great start for deciduous trees and are not expensive for what you get. I've seen a of of modelers make "Pencil Pines", where they take a wooden dowel and make a pointy end in a pencil sharpener. Real conifers don't look like that at all! They taper from the ground up to a fine point - just sayin'. 
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 03:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
This is one of my favorite places for trees, and foliage, etc. http://www.scenicexpress.com/ Their Super Sage and Super Tree materials are a great start for deciduous trees and are not expensive for what you get. I've seen a of of modelers make "Pencil Pines", where they take a wooden dowel and make a pointy end in a pencil sharpener. Real conifers don't look like that at all! They taper from the ground up to a fine point - just sayin'.
I have bought a fair amount of Scenic Express stuff but it seems to be aimed at the HO scale Model Railroad crew and so looks a bit out of scale to me for 1/35.
J
kurnuy
Joined: August 22, 2009
KitMaker: 1,491 posts
Armorama: 997 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 06:33 AM UTC
Hi Dave ,
before i make a tree i ask myself these three questions ;
- How big i'm going to make the tree ?
- What kind of tree ? No pine tree in a desert scene for example.
-How realistic it should be ?
A few years ago i've made this model from scratch ;
This apple tree is made of steel wires ,sea foam , plaster and scatter material. These are the steps shown by following photos;
The big advantage is that you create and also be able to choose the size and shape of the trunk . So my model is a large scale tree in scale 1:24 and i have also made a treehouse...That's one idea...
Cheers
Kurt
before i make a tree i ask myself these three questions ;
- How big i'm going to make the tree ?
- What kind of tree ? No pine tree in a desert scene for example.
-How realistic it should be ?
A few years ago i've made this model from scratch ;
This apple tree is made of steel wires ,sea foam , plaster and scatter material. These are the steps shown by following photos;
The big advantage is that you create and also be able to choose the size and shape of the trunk . So my model is a large scale tree in scale 1:24 and i have also made a treehouse...That's one idea...
Cheers
Kurt
SiStorey
Joined: March 14, 2014
KitMaker: 242 posts
Armorama: 161 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 07:14 AM UTC
Thanks for setting up the this forum Dave, was going to ask the same questions when I start on my Dio's base lol
Kurt - What materials did you use to make all the branches and is it just plaster around the trunk?
Cheers
Si
Kurt - What materials did you use to make all the branches and is it just plaster around the trunk?
Cheers
Si
kurnuy
Joined: August 22, 2009
KitMaker: 1,491 posts
Armorama: 997 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 07:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for setting up the this forum Dave, was going to ask the same questions when I start on my Dio's base lol
Kurt - What materials did you use to make all the branches and is it just plaster around the trunk?
Cheers
Si
Hi Si,
the branches are made of sea foam and it's a mix of plaster and very fine sand around the trunk. The leaves ar fine scattered material. Have fun trying it out
Cheers
Kurt
SiStorey
Joined: March 14, 2014
KitMaker: 242 posts
Armorama: 161 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 07:48 AM UTC
Oh i plan on it lol s whats this sea foam then, ive never heard of it
1stjaeger
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 09:38 AM UTC
Hi David,
here's the link to one of my previous postings. Easy, cheap and not bad looking!!
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/211203#1774423
Cheers
Romain
here's the link to one of my previous postings. Easy, cheap and not bad looking!!
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/211203#1774423
Cheers
Romain
jhoenig
Joined: December 29, 2011
KitMaker: 343 posts
Armorama: 313 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 - 12:01 PM UTC
Hi Dave,
I have a couple tutorials on those particular pines.
keep in mind they're a little long and unedited, and I do ramble a little.
I may do a couple edited ones soon.
also on my Facebook page (The Scenic Factory) I have pics(somewhere) of an uprooted pine I did that incorporated a couple different techniques.
Tree Tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U54S8y3B-Ag
- John
I have a couple tutorials on those particular pines.
keep in mind they're a little long and unedited, and I do ramble a little.
I may do a couple edited ones soon.
also on my Facebook page (The Scenic Factory) I have pics(somewhere) of an uprooted pine I did that incorporated a couple different techniques.
Tree Tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U54S8y3B-Ag
- John
rolltide31
#377
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 1,481 posts
Armorama: 93 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 23, 2014 - 02:54 AM UTC
All,
Thanks for contributing to this thread. I greatly appreciate the input and the assitance.
@Jerry, great looking trees. Do you prefer the wire armature and plaster or the dead root approach? Is there a particular vendor you use for your supplies? Also what materials do you use for ground cover. I know about and have used static grass (not very well mind you).
@Kurt, great looking trees, love the tree house. When you say scatter material what exactly are you using? Also what do you use for ground cover?
@Si, my pleasure. I did look at some previous threads and while they are very helpful they do not really explain what material is being used. Hopefully we can peel this onion back enough to get to the fine details of this process.
@Romain, great looking trees. When you use the steel wool, can you still see the steel wool after complete of does the foliage cover it up? As far as ground cover, do you do anything specific to the moss to preserve it or do you just let it dry out? Who do you purchase your commercial materials from? With your ground soil you mention dry leaves, are you using actual leaves and grinding them up? How do you do this. I was somewhat confused about your comments about birch seed and tea leaves. If you could clarify I would appreciate it.
@John, thanks for the link. I havent had a chance to view it yet and will today.
For all, if you could list exactly what materials you use and the manufacturer I would apprecaite it. Also if there are any particular vendors you use I would apprecaite that also.
Sorry for all the questions, hope you don't mind.
Thanks again for participating.
Dave
Thanks for contributing to this thread. I greatly appreciate the input and the assitance.
@Jerry, great looking trees. Do you prefer the wire armature and plaster or the dead root approach? Is there a particular vendor you use for your supplies? Also what materials do you use for ground cover. I know about and have used static grass (not very well mind you).
@Kurt, great looking trees, love the tree house. When you say scatter material what exactly are you using? Also what do you use for ground cover?
@Si, my pleasure. I did look at some previous threads and while they are very helpful they do not really explain what material is being used. Hopefully we can peel this onion back enough to get to the fine details of this process.
@Romain, great looking trees. When you use the steel wool, can you still see the steel wool after complete of does the foliage cover it up? As far as ground cover, do you do anything specific to the moss to preserve it or do you just let it dry out? Who do you purchase your commercial materials from? With your ground soil you mention dry leaves, are you using actual leaves and grinding them up? How do you do this. I was somewhat confused about your comments about birch seed and tea leaves. If you could clarify I would appreciate it.
@John, thanks for the link. I havent had a chance to view it yet and will today.
For all, if you could list exactly what materials you use and the manufacturer I would apprecaite it. Also if there are any particular vendors you use I would apprecaite that also.
Sorry for all the questions, hope you don't mind.
Thanks again for participating.
Dave
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 23, 2014 - 02:58 AM UTC
The method I use for the tree I want depends on the scene. If I need a specific tree I use the wire otherwise it takes too long to match it with roots. I use so many vendors and products I can't really remember all of them but I do remember John Hoenig as I get all of my pine tree stuff from him like the plumosa fern.
J
J
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 23, 2014 - 03:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have bought a fair amount of Scenic Express stuff but it seems to be aimed at the HO scale Model Railroad crew and so looks a bit out of scale to me for 1/35.
J
There are some military modellers who work in 1/72 (close to HO scale), and in 1/48 (O scale [North American]).
The Super Sage material is a grab bag of sizes from 4" - 5" to 8" - 9", so a variety of tree sizes and species is possible. I agree the leafy material available is a bit small, but then, there are tree species that do have lots of very small leaves. I suppose, if one could afford it, and had plenty of time, one could buy several packages of laser cut leaves and glue them on, one at a time. rolltide31
#377
Joined: June 27, 2010
KitMaker: 1,481 posts
Armorama: 93 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 23, 2014 - 04:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Dave,
I have a couple tutorials on those particular pines.
keep in mind they're a little long and unedited, and I do ramble a little.
I may do a couple edited ones soon.
also on my Facebook page (The Scenic Factory) I have pics(somewhere) of an uprooted pine I did that incorporated a couple different techniques.
Tree Tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U54S8y3B-Ag
- John
John,
Your Hurtgen forest dio is one of the reasons I started this thread, your trees and ground cover are incredible IMHO. If you don't mind me asking, what material do you use to create the ground cover and who makes it? For the trees remaining upright are you using wooden dowels for those?
thanks
Dave
kurnuy
Joined: August 22, 2009
KitMaker: 1,491 posts
Armorama: 997 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 23, 2014 - 05:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Oh i plan on it lol s whats this sea foam then, ive never heard of it
I see ......well actually i meant seefoam , my mistake !
*** @Kurt, great looking trees, love the tree house. When you say scatter material what exactly are you using? Also what do you use for ground cover?***
Hi Dave ,
Sometimes i use herbs as scatter material a mix of parsley ,thyme and oregano is very suitable for simulating fine leaves....however the herbs will shrink and discolor after a period of time if you apply them directly to the branches without using glycerin. I use them mostly to create bushes and shrubs on scale 1:35. i also spray them over in a light or dark green color ( acrylic paint)with my airbrush.
To make leaves for the branches on the tree, i use some synthetic material from Bush as scatter material , apply them directly on the branches of seefoam
from Joefix studios and you can color them afterwards. First of all spray the seefoam over with glue in a spraycan ( i use Bison spray glue ) and then sprinkle the material above the tree....et voila .... you have a realistic looking nice tree made by your own. The ground cover , first i apply a mixture of plaster , fine soil , twigs and other scatter material. Then i use static fine grass from Joefix studios to cover the soil....
Cheers
Kurt
jhoenig
Joined: December 29, 2011
KitMaker: 343 posts
Armorama: 313 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 23, 2014 - 05:50 AM UTC
Dave,
I use mostly all my own product for all my work
http://www.thescenicfactory.com/
The only other product I use is Silflor foliage.
Yes the trunks are sealed balsa trunks.
There is also an Ardennes Dio on here somewhere if you do a search (that also has a couple figures in it by Jerry Rutman)
And a green "Bushy" one for that matter if you haven't seen any of them.
- John
I use mostly all my own product for all my work
http://www.thescenicfactory.com/
The only other product I use is Silflor foliage.
Yes the trunks are sealed balsa trunks.
There is also an Ardennes Dio on here somewhere if you do a search (that also has a couple figures in it by Jerry Rutman)
And a green "Bushy" one for that matter if you haven't seen any of them.
- John
1stjaeger
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 23, 2014 - 08:15 AM UTC
Hi David,
private message sent!
Cheers
Romain
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Friday, October 24, 2014 - 02:47 AM UTC
I think 'seafoam' is the stuff sold as Super Tree material - very fine branchy stuff.
JPTRR
Managing Editor
#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Armorama: 2,447 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 - 07:47 PM UTC
Super work shown here!
Jerry, what brand of laser cut paper leaves on your maple?
Jerry, what brand of laser cut paper leaves on your maple?
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 - 08:22 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Super work shown here!
Jerry, what brand of laser cut paper leaves on your maple?
Japanese firm that begins with a Z is all I remember.
J
Tank1812
Joined: April 29, 2014
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 886 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 - 08:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
what brand of laser cut paper leaves on your maple?
FCModelTrend does make some http://www.fcmodeltrend.com/
and Microworld will start selling in the US in a few weeks.
http://www.microworldgamesllc.com/
HTH
1stjaeger
Joined: May 20, 2011
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
Armorama: 1,727 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 - 11:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextSuper work shown here!
Jerry, what brand of laser cut paper leaves on your maple?
Japanese firm that begins with a Z is all I remember.
J
Could that be Kamizukuri???
Cheers
Romain
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 - 11:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextSuper work shown here!
Jerry, what brand of laser cut paper leaves on your maple?
Japanese firm that begins with a Z is all I remember.
J
Could that be Kamizukuri???
Cheers
Romain
You are correct Sir!!!
Hahahaha I wasn't even close!
J
firstcircle
Joined: November 19, 2008
KitMaker: 2,249 posts
Armorama: 2,007 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 - 03:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
There are some military modellers who work in 1/72
Yeah, apparently there are a few of them, not many, but... So I was interested in finding some trees for placing my 1/72 Dicker Max in a forest setting, hence I wanted to try the new Noch pines, but they are only OK, as many model trees seem to be, being pretty good from something of a distance, but close up, not that great.
While looking around I came across this outfit, Grand Central Gems, some of the trees look very nice. Again, it is always hard to tell from photos, but has anyone else seen any of their products in real life? Though also for primarily for model railway layouts, there are a few pretty big trees in their range, like 18" and up to 24".
Also while searching around it started to seem to me that 1/35 scale modellers might consider bonsai...
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