Hosted by Darren Baker
My M923A1 truck - feature article ready
straightedge
Joined: January 18, 2004
KitMaker: 1,352 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 01:07 AM UTC
I stand corrected, you are correct, you have just thought an old dog a new trick, and I have seen thousands of brake systems, and none looked like this, the only one I never seen was to what they call the wedge brake system, and the reason I never seen it was everybody told me it was a worthless system,that nobody wants. I even own a Mack to which these pictures are Mack rears, and suspension with the pumpkin turned vertical instead of horizontal like all the other trucks. Now like in picture 3 and 4 you see the two part, the smaller closes to the wheel is the brake chamber with a clamp around it, that works the brake when you push on the brake peddle and the bigger part behind it with the blue plug is the maxi part with another clamp around it, or the safety system, or the parking brake part, which has a big spring in it strong enough to take a mans head off if he tried to take that clamp off without the proper tools, now even I haft to check into this type of system, the brake and maxi system is the same as everyone else, but the way this one is mounted, it can only push torwards the wheel, so I got to pull the old shop book out to actually see if this is the wedge brake system. On those tires you bought for your model isn't the cap on the outside a cap for that automatic inflation system, that goes from the hub to the rim?
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 01:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
On those tires you bought for your model isn't the cap on the outside a cap for that automatic inflation system, that goes from the hub to the rim?
Nope, when the CTIS is installed, wheels look like this:
front wheel:
rear wheel:
Regards,
Pawel
straightedge
Joined: January 18, 2004
KitMaker: 1,352 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 01:28 AM UTC
On the tires the Government buys from everybody, so in your area you might see one tread design, and in another part of the country you will see a different kind of pattern, depending on which manufacturer they got their tires from, and those tires they also have what they call a directional tire that is supposed to go on only one way for the rotation, now your drive axles seem to be in the right direction, but it seems as though you got your steers switched, now it won't make a difference on your model, but in real life that could shorten the life of a tire tremendously, did you notice the tread design being backwards.
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 01:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
but in real life that could shorten the life of a tire tremendously, did you notice the tread design being backwards.
I start to really like this little conversation we have here! :-) Check photos below!
Rgds,
Pawel
Graywolf
Senior Editor
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 6,405 posts
Armorama: 1,850 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 01:52 AM UTC
very nice model and article Pawel..I added your website to my never changing classic favorites,the reason is the recent wonderful work you do. congrats 
straightedge
Joined: January 18, 2004
KitMaker: 1,352 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 02:20 AM UTC
The SS tires or in other words the super singles that the military is useing now, I can't figure out why they changed to them, cause when you get a blow out you got to stop and change on the spot, no choice, but when they had the duels they could depending on the load, could go to a safe place to change it, now the SS tires cost about 3/4 the cost of duels which is a savings, but in weight, they also weigh about 3/4 the weight as a set of duels to, and you haft to be pretty strong, to man handle one of them suckers, I done a couple in my early years, but I couldn't dream of doing it now, as for that matter I couldn't even handle the regular ones now, but most of the time the bed isn't big enough to carry to heavy of a load unless it is a tanker, so with tubless duels they could go on for miles and I myself have driven hundreds of miles with one flat on a set of duels before I could get to where I could get it fixed, now of course I have tubless, you couldn't drive far with tube type though.
irocarmy88
Joined: January 30, 2004
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 09:19 PM UTC
Tha't a great looking truck. If you need more refrence pictures let me know. I'm currently in Iraq taking pictures of every vehicle I can. Also I was born in Warsaw (Luwoska ) street, I immigraded in 1981. Now I'm in the US Army. I speak Polish.
Ryszard
Ryszard
straightedge
Joined: January 18, 2004
KitMaker: 1,352 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:53 PM UTC
Where were you able to find the other brake chambers at, originally you only had one for each wheel, and now I see you got two on each wheel with one side having the maxi part on it and the other with just the brake chamber all except the steering, oh another thing I was wondering is just what are those things hanging down on the center of the windshield, in the picture it has two in the center, and one on the drivers side, but the picture doesn't show the passenger side so I don't know if one is over there or not, I looked and looked and I forever can not figure them out, I know they aren't the antiglare lights you can buy at the truckstops, and they don't look like the accessory fans for defrost, or the other colored lights to attach by the windshield to help visibility in the fog and snow, so could you enlighten on just what Eduard called them. That is one great job of model building, better then I have ever done, and I only seen three things that didn't seem right, but they aren't even worth mentioning, that I believe nobody else would even notice, make that four if you want total correctness. Now I'm not putting it down or anything, like I said it is way better then I have ever done, just a few things that would be visable when somebody looks at it.
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 02:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Where were you able to find the other brake chambers at, originally you only had one for each wheel, and now I see you got two on each wheel with one side having the maxi part on it and the other with just the brake chamber all except the steering,
I made resin copies of parts provided for front steering axis to get four extra parts.
Quoted Text
oh another thing I was wondering is just what are those things hanging down on the center of the windshield, in the picture it has two in the center, and one on the drivers side, but the picture doesn't show the passenger side so I don't know if one is over there or not, I looked and looked and I forever can not figure them out, I know they aren't the antiglare lights you can buy at the truckstops, and they don't look like the accessory fans for defrost, or the other colored lights to attach by the windshield to help visibility in the fog and snow, so could you enlighten on just what Eduard called them.
Do you mean those parts attached to vertical parts of windshield frame? Those are metal arms with wing nuts on them, used to hold window in open position. Both passenger's and driver's half of the windshield is hinged on top and can be opened separately, so there are such arms on both sides of each window.
Quoted Text
That is one great job of model building, better then I have ever done, and I only seen three things that didn't seem right, but they aren't even worth mentioning, that I believe nobody else would even notice, make that four if you want total correctness. Now I'm not putting it down or anything, like I said it is way better then I have ever done, just a few things that would be visable when somebody looks at it.
Please tell me what you think doesn't seem right. I'm not longer able to correct anything in this model, but will make another one in the future, so I would like to know where I made mistakes. And I guess my article should contain as much correct information as possible.
Regards,
Pawel
straightedge
Joined: January 18, 2004
KitMaker: 1,352 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 04:53 AM UTC
1. The bows pointing forward, where is the bottom of them pointing, you haft to stack them sideways.
2. Air brakes it should have a knob to pull or push on the dash for parking, like we talked about eariler about that chamber with the blue plug, when the air is released from chamber that big spring in there applys pressure to the brakes for parking.
3. Ever sense the 80's if you look at the side of the truck frame you see what looks like a big nut with a cone shape sticking out from it at every cross member to mount the cross members in place, they actually aren't nuts but big pop rivits, and highly visible sometimes 2 to 4 to hold them, depending if they are a cross brace, or an I beam
4. No Brakes on the steering, now in the 60's and 70's some thought they were dangerous, so from the factory they used to have a shut off valve to the steering axle for adverse weather, but that was proven a myth along with why the old trucks had no power steering, they had power steering for a real long time but the old hands were set in there way, now me I'm glad to learn something new everyday, like them things to hold the windows out, I had thought they done away with them years ago.
2. Air brakes it should have a knob to pull or push on the dash for parking, like we talked about eariler about that chamber with the blue plug, when the air is released from chamber that big spring in there applys pressure to the brakes for parking.
3. Ever sense the 80's if you look at the side of the truck frame you see what looks like a big nut with a cone shape sticking out from it at every cross member to mount the cross members in place, they actually aren't nuts but big pop rivits, and highly visible sometimes 2 to 4 to hold them, depending if they are a cross brace, or an I beam
4. No Brakes on the steering, now in the 60's and 70's some thought they were dangerous, so from the factory they used to have a shut off valve to the steering axle for adverse weather, but that was proven a myth along with why the old trucks had no power steering, they had power steering for a real long time but the old hands were set in there way, now me I'm glad to learn something new everyday, like them things to hold the windows out, I had thought they done away with them years ago.
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 07:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
1. The bows pointing forward, where is the bottom of them pointing, you haft to stack them sideways.
I don't quite understand. Each tarpaulin bow is made of three sections - two side parts and a center section. The center sections are almost flat and are stored somewhere under the cargo bed (I didn't know exact location, so I just put them on the bed of my truck - see photos in my gallery, under rolled tarp). Two side parts of each bow are stored in special brackets attached to the front wall of cargo bay. Just like you see in my model. See photos below:
The only mistake I made here is that I didn't know that bottom vertical parts of those bows are quite long and should stick further down from each bracket (or "pocket" as it is called in OpManual) than I made it, but it is hardly visible in finished model.
Quoted Text
2. Air brakes it should have a knob to pull or push on the dash for parking, like we talked about eariler about that chamber with the blue plug, when the air is released from chamber that big spring in there applys pressure to the brakes for parking.
Take a close look at this picture: http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m923a1-mods/CAB_PASSNGR.jpg.
Almost on the middle of the picture, above the heater pipe is a big black knob with yellow ring around its base. This is (quote from M939 series trucks Operating Manual): "SPRING BRAKE RELEASE CONTROL, pushed in to release spring brakes independently of the mechanical parking brake. Control is used to release spring brakes in order to test and adjust mechanical brakes."
So in normal conditions the parking brake lever also enables spring brakes, only in "test" conditions the knob is used. Both the knob and parking brake lever are present in my model.
Quoted Text
3. Ever sense the 80's if you look at the side of the truck frame you see what looks like a big nut with a cone shape sticking out from it at every cross member to mount the cross members in place, they actually aren't nuts but big pop rivits, and highly visible sometimes 2 to 4 to hold them, depending if they are a cross brace, or an I beam
I agree here. I didn't add those rivets, as I decided not to go down to the level of each rivet and bolt with detailing of this model, particularly the suspension.
Quoted Text
4. No Brakes on the steering
Again I don't understand. My model has brakes on the front axis (see this photo: http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m923a1-mods/FRONT_AXIS.jpg). The real truck also has brakes on front axis... So where is the problem?
Regards,
Pawel
straightedge
Joined: January 18, 2004
KitMaker: 1,352 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 09:56 AM UTC
Yes I see now, this morning I looked at the bottom frame of the whole frame and I couldn't see them, my apologies for not looking at the small picture on the front brakes, and I see they have their bows attached to the cab, and the bottom stakes are extended under their cab, like I said it wouldn't be much, and 99.9% of the people wouldn't even notice, and like I said on them pop rivits the old way was with bolts and nuts and not to noticeable, but if a person was to ever jump off a real truck back there off the deck to where them bows are, and caught themselves on one of them pop rivits they would notice them the rest of their lives cause they almost stick out a couple inches the way they make them now,and all the truck manufacturers need to do away with them anyway, cause there is nothing you can do with them once they become lose except take a torch to them and put a bolt in its place, they said they don't come lose, but I got wrote up in California a few times for them being lose. The brake button, I'm so used to seeing either a big square bright yellow, or a red stop sign design for the knob for the set and release, don't take it to heart, you have a model there to be proud of, I don't know of anybody else doing a truck that far, now I did read about that guy doing a Ferari or how ever you spell it clear down to duplicating the key that fits into the ignition took him many years to get it done, have you read about that one, they say the engine even runs like the real car, I think it was in 1/4 scale. Now I'm really impressed with your model, as a matter of fact you have inspired me to try a lot harder on mine. Ive been absent from modeling for quite a while, but now I got all the time providing my health lets me to try to do a better job, and now you have showed me to what can be done, and I really appreciate you taking the time to do this for us. Hold your head high cause there is a lot of other people just like me that would love to do that nice of a job.
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 10:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I see they have their bows attached to the cab, and the bottom stakes are extended under their cab, like I said it wouldn't be much, and 99.9% of the people wouldn't even notice,
BOWS ARE NOT ATTACHED TO THE CAB!!!
Sorry, I had to get it out of my system
Nothing is "extended under their cab" and sections of bows are attached TO POCKETS ON THE CARGO BAY WALL, not to the cab. They do not have any part that could go under the cab as they are just sections of bows, not the whole bows.
I suggest you read the Operator's Manual for M939 series trucks TM 9-2320-272-10, as I did. You can find it here: https://www.logsa.army.mil/etms/data/A/051550.pdf. See paragraph 2-42. BOW AND TARPAULIN KIT and particularly check pages 2-229 and 2-230. Let me quote information from page 2-230: "On M923/A1/A2 and M925/A1/A2 model vehicles, staves are stored in pockets on cargo body directly behind vehicle cab".
Thanks you very much for compliments on my model!
Regards,
Pawel
straightedge
Joined: January 18, 2004
KitMaker: 1,352 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 11:12 AM UTC
I'm sorry buddy, but it takes all I have just to buy a discount model, believe me if I could work, this wouldn't be the problem, and I'll just leave it at that.
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 06:05 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm sorry buddy, but it takes all I have just to buy a discount model, believe me if I could work, this wouldn't be the problem, and I'll just leave it at that.
In my previous post I gave you the link to the electronic version of the manual. You can download it for free. You only need Acrobat Reader software to open the document, but this software is also free. The only problem is that this file is over 8 MB, so if you have slow Internet connection it will take a while to download.
Regards,
Pawel
pascalbausset
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 1,416 posts
Armorama: 1,379 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 06:45 PM UTC
Hi Pawel,
I have 2 questions :
1) Is the Italeari underside of the cargo body right ? in the TM I dont find any drawing that confirmt the kit design.
2) Have the M936 wrecker the forward winch hydraulic oil tank reservoir on the right side ?
I cant see it in my few pics. Have you some good pics that can confirm this ?
I search overall dimensions of this item to make one.
Thanks a lot
Regards
pascal
I have 2 questions :
1) Is the Italeari underside of the cargo body right ? in the TM I dont find any drawing that confirmt the kit design.
2) Have the M936 wrecker the forward winch hydraulic oil tank reservoir on the right side ?
I cant see it in my few pics. Have you some good pics that can confirm this ?
I search overall dimensions of this item to make one.
Thanks a lot
Regards
pascal
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 08:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
1) Is the Italeari underside of the cargo body right ? in the TM I dont find any drawing that confirmt the kit design.
Unfortunately I don't know
This is the area that is not visible on any photos and indeed there is nothing in TMs that can help. For example I know that there should be some kind of storage bracket for upper sections of tarp bows somewhere on the underside of the body, but I have no idea where.Similar problem is with the underside of the cab. In Italeri kit you can see through this area side to side under driver's and passenger's seats, while in real trucks it is not possible. I attached some pieces of styrene to block the view, but I don't know what really should be there.
Quoted Text
2) Have the M936 wrecker the forward winch hydraulic oil tank reservoir on the right side ?
I cant see it in my few pics. Have you some good pics that can confirm this ?
I search overall dimensions of this item to make one.
If you mean this one:
then it looks that M936 does not have it (at least not there and not in this form):
Best Regards,
Pawel
pascalbausset
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 1,416 posts
Armorama: 1,379 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 08:34 PM UTC
Pawel, thanks for your answers.
1) We must wait for pics, to kwow how is the underside built.
2) Its about this tankthat I'am talking. You pic confirm my idea. Here one of mine from a USAF wrecker :
[
But in one TM (I does retrieve the references) this tank exist !!! I post these references ASAP
pascal
1) We must wait for pics, to kwow how is the underside built.
2) Its about this tankthat I'am talking. You pic confirm my idea. Here one of mine from a USAF wrecker :
[
But in one TM (I does retrieve the references) this tank exist !!! I post these references ASAP
pascalVodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 11:34 PM UTC
Pascal,
Do you know this collection of M936 photos: http://community.webshots.com/album/30912605HIcUpQRXLp?
It should help you a lot - the photo I posted came from this source.
Best Regards,
Pawel
Do you know this collection of M936 photos: http://community.webshots.com/album/30912605HIcUpQRXLp?
It should help you a lot - the photo I posted came from this source.
Best Regards,
Pawel
pascalbausset
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 1,416 posts
Armorama: 1,379 posts
Posted: Monday, February 09, 2004 - 12:48 AM UTC
Pawel,
I know the Wallace 1212 webshots albums, but I dont dowmload the pics. I made this today.
But its only for the knoledge, my M936A1 is finished since one or two years. Thanks for the link.
For the hydraulic tank :
In TM 9-2320-272-24-2 chap 3-337 in the winch hydraulic oil reservoir replacement list of applicable model there is the M936 !!!!!
Another drawing is for the M932.
For the underside of the cargo here are 2 pics :
The second is a detailfrom the first. Not evident, but its the only one that I have.
Regards.
pascal
I know the Wallace 1212 webshots albums, but I dont dowmload the pics. I made this today.
But its only for the knoledge, my M936A1 is finished since one or two years. Thanks for the link.
For the hydraulic tank :
In TM 9-2320-272-24-2 chap 3-337 in the winch hydraulic oil reservoir replacement list of applicable model there is the M936 !!!!!
Another drawing is for the M932.
For the underside of the cargo here are 2 pics :
The second is a detailfrom the first. Not evident, but its the only one that I have.
Regards.
pascalstraightedge
Joined: January 18, 2004
KitMaker: 1,352 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Monday, February 09, 2004 - 11:03 PM UTC
I tried to download the acrobat but I don't have enough disk space, and I had almost three hundred jokes in my files and I deleted them, but still not enough, and the only thing I got in my files now is modeling tips and I can't do that, this computer isn't old compared to all the other things I own, but compared to the standard computer today this one is ancient, but it lets me see a lot of things I wouldn't have if I didn't have it, I don't like the parts I miss out on for not having that acrobat reader, but right now this is what I got, and I thank my Sister for giving it to me, or other wise I wouldn't be able to see the great workmanship that is on this site, plus the friendly people that help make this site what it is. I'm looking for things to get better real soon, then maybe I can do some of these other things, but I thank you anyway for finding them files for me.
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