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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Dry brushing, oil washing help
RGasper85
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Joined: November 21, 2014
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Posted: Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 08:07 AM UTC
I have a few questions for the pros. I had trouble the other night trying to dry brush(something I've done very little of on a large scale such as a tank, I've only done aircraft up till now). I use MM enamels and while drying to dry brush my current build the paint would dry extremely fast leaving me brush sticky and creating brush marks in the paint. I tried thinning then not enough paint left on the brush. Idk why it does this so any answers? And secondly what is an oil wash and a filter? I see guys on YouTube using oil paint and while looking at them at hobby lobby... There are so many colors!! So I walked away, overwhelmed. What colors do you guys use? I want to learn a nice sun and rain weathered technique so that the camouflage paint doesn't look so brand spankin new. Guess I need a lot of help
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 09:12 AM UTC
To drybrush, you need to add a little paint to a disposable palette, pick up a little on the brush, then wipe away most of it. Test it on the palette, and if it's streaking there is too much paint. It should leave only a little color. When it leaves only a hint of color, dry brush the model. If it dries out, add a touch more color--don't dunk the brush in thinner until the end of the session. If you just want to create highlights, brush lightly around raised detail. If you want to create a heavier color, suggesting accumulated dust and dirt, you need a very wide brush, and apply in a scrubbing action. Vertical strokes can create the illusion of rain-streaked dirt. It tends to be destructive of good sable brushes, but it works. Francois Verlinden used to use the technique almost exclusively, but it is currently out of fashion.
Today, most such weathering is done with washes, glazes ("filters" in Mig's terminology), or by airbrushing layers of translucent color. All the techniques work for some applications, so try them all (practice on an old junk model, or buy a cheap older kit to practice on).
Washes can be made with enamels thinned with mineral spirits, or with artist's tube oil color paints, thinned with mineral spirits, or turpentine substitute (odorless thinner). Real turpentine can leave a sticky residue. Glazes are similar, but also include a clear binder (like a gloss clear enamel or lacquer), which can leave a smoother layer of color that doesn't pool as much around raised details.
Water-based paints can be used as washes, too, but the paint can tend to bead unless you add a flow enhancer of some sort (you can buy a flow enhancer in an art supply store, or you can improvise by adding a tiny drop of dish washing liquid to the water). Some people use hobby acrylics, but you can also use artist's tube-type watercolors. These are very forgiving, because if you mess up, you can rinse them off. When you are satisfied with an effect, just overspray with a clear flat coat to seal them.
Arizonakid
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Joined: October 03, 2012
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Posted: Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 09:54 AM UTC

Well I can't improve any on what Gerald shared with you. All excellent tips.

As far as what colors to get ohhh boy. There may be some that will tell you that you absolutely HAVE to get some special set of oil paints specifically made for WWII armor modeling. I would suggest any regular brand of oil paint that you can pick up at any art supply store. And you do not need a huge collection. All you should need is black, white, yellow (cadmium is good), blue ( I like prussian), red (cadmium again), and just because I find it usefull in so many of the things I do with oils, yellow ocre. With those colors you should be able to easily mix any color or shade you need. And one of the smaller size tubes will probably be a lifetime supply.

Gary
RGasper85
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Posted: Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 11:37 AM UTC
Thanks Gerald those are some helpful tips. As far as streaking goes I assume I would use a much thinner brush and would I thin the pigments in any way? Say with water or something? And Gary, would I thin the oil paints with my mineral spirits? Or would that mess up the paint? I will try and post a couple pics Sunday afternoon to see what you guys think. Hope I am on the right "track" hahahaha
thebear
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: November 15, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 08:18 PM UTC
Hi Russell.. The only thing I can add to what has already been said is I would add a few more colors to the oil paints that Gary mentioned ...
Raw Umber , burnt umber, raw sienna ,burnt sienna.. Just easier straight out of the tube than mixing your own..(but you could! ) Another little tip is I use lighter fluid as a thinner for the oils ..it's cheap and easy to find and has an added bonus of helping the oils dry flat...

Rick
RGasper85
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Posted: Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 08:40 PM UTC
Rick up until last Christmas I never even touched an airbrush, never had any proper RLM or RAL paints so I mixed my own to match photos of others' models but it always turned out decent aside from brush application. BUT I will definitely get some of those colors you mentioned and maybe a few others.
SdAufKla
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Joined: May 07, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 09:52 PM UTC
Hi Russell,

I don't normally endorse many modeling books, but consider putting one or all of Rinaldi's "TankArt" books on your Santa wish list.


Rinaldi Studio Press

Although I think he chooses subjects that allow for a little too much use of the "hairspray chipping" technique (a personal bias on my part against the subjects and not against the artist), he provides some of the best and most contemporary explanations and descriptions of the use of oil paints on AFV model finishes.

What's particularly refreshing about Rinaldi's books is that he does NOT relie on, promote, nor endorse any particular proprietary finishing product line. This allows his SBS descriptions to focus on the technique and not some brand name material. In his books, oil paints are oil paints and not some magic potion or lotion with a modeling celebrity's name. This absence of commercial dependence is a significant and important difference between Rinaldi's books and those from some other talented modeler artists.

In regards to basic, "old school" finishing techniques, such as washes and dry-brushing, you can't go wrong with a legible (even if well used) copy of Shep Paine's "Modeling Tanks and Military Vehicles":

Amazon::Book Search::Shepard Paine::Modeling Tanks and Military Vehicles

Give yourself a nice Christmas present with some of these books, and I think you'll be very happy with what you can learn.
easyco69
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Posted: Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 10:04 PM UTC
this might help. Here's their website.
http://www.scalewarmachines.com/
PS- good explanation guys.
GeraldOwens
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Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 08:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Gerald those are some helpful tips. As far as streaking goes I assume I would use a much thinner brush and would I thin the pigments in any way? Say with water or something? And Gary, would I thin the oil paints with my mineral spirits? Or would that mess up the paint? I will try and post a couple pics Sunday afternoon to see what you guys think. Hope I am on the right "track" hahahaha


No need to thin paint when you dry brush. You can also dry brush with oils, which have a longer working time (which is good or bad, depending on the circumstance). If you want to control the rain steak effect, yes, you might want to use a round brush rather than a wide, flat one.
As you learn, remember that you don't have to use every effect on every model.
At the moment, there is a great fad for faded, chipped, rusted paint finishes, forgetting that in wartime, most of the equipment is practically new. Most of the grungy appearance of machines in combat is accumulated filth, not deteriorated paint. Some areas will rust, notably exhaust pipes and mufflers, due to heat. Sheet metal damage (crumpled fenders, for instance) may show some rust where paint has flaked. There may be some chips on the edges of hatch covers, and around the muzzle where the wire brush is inserted during daily barrel cleaning. But large, random paint chips are only appropriate where paint has been applied improperly, or when the finish is temporary. The slapdash tropical paint jobs applied to the first German tanks to arrive in North Africa in 1941 chipped badly, because the surfaces weren't properly prepared. Later equipment was delivered from Europe already painted, and did not chip like this. White winter paint finishes were intended to come off easily, so flaking and chipping were common.
Many popular effects seen on models are cool looking, but don't look real. For instance, paint doesn't fade preferentially in the middle of a panel but not near its edges, yet many advocates of pre-shading tell you to spray dark lines around the edges of things. Paint fades most where it is exposed to direct sunlight (and again, many vehicles didn't survive long enough to show any significant fading). Yes, you should be inspired by beautiful models, but you should also look closely at the real thing. And have fun!
RGasper85
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Joined: November 21, 2014
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Posted: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 - 08:33 PM UTC
Gerald those are some great tips there. Things I never thought of and will help me immensely. Unfortunately I've messed up a bit. Forgot the oil wash and for some reason I applied a dusting with light earth pigments to the entire tank. Then it was really faded looking. Pretty cool looking but I hadn't done any other weathering yet and had to wipe it off and lightly applied the camo colors again. I didn't realize how expensive oil paints areso I only got raw umber, raw sienna, yellow ochre and titanium white. Also I didn't weather the tracks before putting them on and they are the crappy rubber ones and are too tight too remove. I did paint them a base coat though so I will try to weather a little as they are. "Sigh" I will post a picture in a minute and see what you think I should do, if it is salvageable?
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Thursday, November 27, 2014 - 12:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Gerald those are some great tips there. Things I never thought of and will help me immensely. Unfortunately I've messed up a bit. Forgot the oil wash and for some reason I applied a dusting with light earth pigments to the entire tank. Then it was really faded looking. Pretty cool looking but I hadn't done any other weathering yet and had to wipe it off and lightly applied the camo colors again. I didn't realize how expensive oil paints areso I only got raw umber, raw sienna, yellow ochre and titanium white. Also I didn't weather the tracks before putting them on and they are the crappy rubber ones and are too tight too remove. I did paint them a base coat though so I will try to weather a little as they are. "Sigh" I will post a picture in a minute and see what you think I should do, if it is salvageable?


Don't beat yourself up. Lots of people build the complete vehicle, including tracks, before adding the first drop of paint, while others like to paint in stages and subassemblies. Do what works for you. Some modelers, like Steve Zaloga, will just airbrush the lower hull, tracks, and running gear in earth tones, because in many cases, none of the original paint is visible at all (always remembering the mantra, "tanks get filthy").
And yes, oil colors are expensive, but they also have a tremendous amount of coloring power in tiny little dollops--those tubes you bought may last well into the 2020's.
And don't be in a huge hurry to "fix" mistakes. You said you kind of liked the dry pigments on the finish. Look at an effect critically, and say, "does it work?" If so, skip the formulas others have given you, and go with your gut. Every technique out there started as an experiment or an outright mistake. If you set out to make a perfect model, you will just paralyze yourself. You will learn from every kit you build, especially the failures, so get back to it, try some new techniques, and have a little fun. It ain't brain surgery, it's just plastic.
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