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SS Tankers in Leather?
panzerconor
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 - 10:12 AM UTC
I really like this figure from Alpine.



But if I buy him, he'll be set with other tankers NOT in that type of uniform, but typical SS camo.

So my question is which units had this type of uniform? And for how long? I want to set him with my Jagdpanzer L(V) 70, but I'm not sure if that's accurate.

Thanks!

-Conor
pegasuspaul
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 - 10:59 AM UTC
I believe members of the 12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjugend" wore these leathers. Hope this helps.
Paul
Jmarles
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 - 12:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I believe members of the 12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjugend" wore these leathers. Hope this helps.
Paul


Yes, if we are to believe the storied history only the Hitlerjugend had the full leathers. They are purloined German made Italian u boat leathers. There are pics of other units wearing the black leather jacket but it is a different item altogether. If memory serves, Ron Volstad mentions this in his book on the SS. HTH
jrutman
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 - 08:22 PM UTC
These leather u-boat uniforms started showing up after the LSSAH was posted to Italy after being pulled out of the cancelled Kursk op. and during their re-fit.
The 1SS panzer Korp seemed to be the first ones to start using the leathers as they were much sought after because they gave pretty good protection against burns,the "boogeyman" of all tankers.
As we know,the cadre for the new 12SS came primarily from the LSSAH and so they brought the uniforms ,or the idea of using them,or the channels to find them,along with them.
A lot of guys in the LSSAH wore them during the Ardennes offensive but not all. It probably came down to where and when you were assigned to the unit. I have also seen pics of guys wearing the leathers in other SS tank units. Either they had their own methods of obtaining them or maybe they got transferred from the HJ or LSSAH?
This is why you see Diefenthal wearing a sheepskin jacket during the Ardennes Offensive issued in large amounts to the LSSAH before Karkov or drivers in the LSSAH wearing cammo fieldcaps in Achen that they were issued prior to Kursk while no one else around them has one.
It was the same in the USArmy when I was in. The older gear was held onto by us oldtimers as a sort of trophy of service.
You are probably safe Conor,as this stage of the war(Normandy till the end) missmatch was the rule rather than the exception. HTH
J
Sean50
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 - 08:36 PM UTC
Hello there,

Not Jagdpanzers but have a look here at some of the Tiger IIs from sSSPzAbt 503.

With a Jagdpanzer IV, I'd stick with the above concencus, LSSAH or HJ.

Cheers,

Sean
panzerconor
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 - 10:21 PM UTC
Excellent, gentlemen, thank you. That's exactly what I was hoping to hear

-Conor
Giovanni1508
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 - 11:34 PM UTC

Hi gents,

Hi Conor,

Anyway, if you decide to go ahead with this figure, which I agree is a very good subject from Alpine, I consider interesting if you post some pictures of WIP.

How to manage the painting of leather jacket, i.m.o. should be useful.

Cheers

Giovanni
panzerconor
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 10:28 AM UTC
Giovanni, I'd love it if a walk through of that already existed hahaha. But I'd be happy to oblige, I know I've got all the right colors for it... Just a matter of using them right!

I ended up with this masterpiece as well:



I'm excited now... School is about to end for a month or so, and I plan to spend a considerable amount of time at the bench

-Conor
jrutman
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 09:08 PM UTC
There was a guy that did a leather clad fig on this forum a little while back,if you can go back a bit and find it?
J
Biggles2
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 09:11 PM UTC
Michael Wittmann wore that kind of jacket at Villers Bocage.
panzerconor
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 09:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael Wittmann wore that kind of jacket at Villers Bocage.


I do have the Dragon Tiger I Late kit... So I might have to try something...

Also, I think this is what you were talking about Jerry?

http://armorama.com/forums/225740&page=1

And from there I found this link:

http://rompy77.blogspot.com/2014/09/wip-2-jeff-shiu-ss-untersturmfuhrer.html

Time to research I've got a leather jacket myself, and I've been paying attention to where it's beginning to wear out/fade, so that's something I'll apply to this figure.

-Conor
Giovanni1508
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 09:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Giovanni, I'd love it if a walk through of that already existed hahaha. But I'd be happy to oblige, I know I've got all the right colors for it... Just a matter of using them right!

I ended up with this masterpiece as well:

I'm excited now... School is about to end for a month or so, and I plan to spend a considerable amount of time at the bench

-Conor


Hi Conor,

Thanks for posting the picture. Agree, this is a masterpiece. Anyway I remember to have seen something in some old tread: I'll research...

...and you make a good building schedule for the next month on holiday. Waiting to see the result

Cheers
Giovanni
RonV
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 02:51 AM UTC
Just as a matter of interest, it is now thought that these U-Boat leathers came from Kriegsmarine stores in Kiel. In fact, these black leathers were for deck crew on surface craft, the U-Boat arm used gray leathers. Without a large active fleet, the KM had little need for these items while the Panzer arm was eager to have the fire protection that these leathers might offer.

I believe that these appeared first in Normandy with HJ and LAH Divisions plus the 101st SS Heavy Tiger Battalion. Their use continued through the remainder of the war certainly with Waffen-SS units and Heer units as well, but it is difficult to identify the exact unit.

FWIW,
Ron Volstad
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 03:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Michael Wittmann wore that kind of jacket at Villers Bocage.


I do have the Dragon Tiger I Late kit... So I might have to try something...

Also, I think this is what you were talking about Jerry?

http://armorama.com/forums/225740&page=1

And from there I found this link:

http://rompy77.blogspot.com/2014/09/wip-2-jeff-shiu-ss-untersturmfuhrer.html

Time to research I've got a leather jacket myself, and I've been paying attention to where it's beginning to wear out/fade, so that's something I'll apply to this figure.

-Conor




Yep,
That was the thread. It is not the same jacket of course but the paint technique would be identical I think.
J
Jmarles
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 04:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael Wittmann wore that kind of jacket at Villers Bocage.


He also wore one in the pic where he's standing in front of his damaged Stug III. Wonder if it's the same one?
Biggles2
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 08:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text



He also wore one in the pic where he's standing in front of his damaged Stug III. Wonder if it's the same one?


That must be pretty early - '42 - '43?
Biggles2
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Posted: Monday, December 15, 2014 - 09:21 PM UTC
Judging from photos there seems to be two distinct patterns of leather clothing. But for sure, as Jerry says, (and it is documented) 1st SS plundered Italian naval stores in Italy, while on R&R after Kursk, just after Italy surrendered to Allies in '43, and grabbed up all the submarine leathers.
(And after the war, emigrated to the US, modified their Death's Head insignia, rode around on Hogs and became a famous [or infamous] outlaw biker gang!)
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 12:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Judging from photos there seems to be two distinct patterns of leather clothing. But for sure, as Jerry says, (and it is documented) 1st SS plundered Italian naval stores in Italy, while on R&R after Kursk, just after Italy surrendered to Allies in '43, and grabbed up all the submarine leathers.
(And after the war, emigrated to the US, modified their Death's Head insignia, rode around on Hogs and became a famous [or infamous] outlaw biker gang!)




Ron V did remind me of something though. The German Navy had grey leather u-boat oversuits while the black ones worn by the tankers were from the surface navy. Also,I don't recall seeing anyone wearing the leathers during the action in the winter of 43/44,after the LSSAH refit in Italy. They were involved in the relief/defensive actions around the Korsun Kessel and worn down to almost nothing,arriving in Belgium in early spring 44 without any vehicles for the pre-Normandy refit. When they and the HJ showed up in Normandy the leathers were prominent as well as with the 101/501 heavy tank abt.
The black leathers were then seen until the wars' end. Don't know about the Hells'Angels thing though.
Better ask Samcrow?
J
Biggles2
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Posted: Thursday, December 18, 2014 - 09:41 PM UTC
To follow up, in "The Panzers and the Battle of Normandy" by Georges Bernace, it is stated that the leather clothing was actually of German manufacture, and previously delivered to the Italian Navy from the Kriegsmarine. (So much for fine Italian leather!). So everybody's right!
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