Starting off the New Year, Dragon Models has announced a new variant of the Panther that looks rather interesting.
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
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Dragon: Observation Panther
SgtRam
Contributing Writer
#197
Joined: March 06, 2011
KitMaker: 3,971 posts
Armorama: 2,859 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 09:09 PM UTC
Starting off the New Year, Dragon Models has announced a new variant of the Panther that looks rather interesting.
Read the Full News Story
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
PantherF
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 09:31 PM UTC
Interesting as I thought they already had one out.
You know, to this day I have NEVER seen a real photo of one of these.
Jeff
You know, to this day I have NEVER seen a real photo of one of these.
Jeff
tigerproductions
Joined: November 13, 2006
KitMaker: 238 posts
Armorama: 201 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 10:02 PM UTC
Big deal, just a re hash of the old one...................How about a new US vehicle instead of always the same rehashed German garbage? Don't get me wrong, I love panzers and am a "German tank" builder, but come on let's have some originality for a change. Start doing some pre-WW II American armor and other things of W.W.II that have not been touched. How about a good SU76?
C_JACQUEMONT
Joined: October 09, 2004
KitMaker: 2,433 posts
Armorama: 2,325 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 10:23 PM UTC
Is that the same as the one released in their "exclusive" CyberHobby line?
If that's the case they rip off their customers yet again by fooling them into buying supposedly "exclusive" "limited edition" stuff only to rerelease it later in their mainstream line.
Did that for the Panther F with steel roadwheels already.
That and the "black plague" kits = not a good way to keep customers.
They're lucky other manufacturers aren't doing much German WW2 stuff.
Cheers,
Christophe
If that's the case they rip off their customers yet again by fooling them into buying supposedly "exclusive" "limited edition" stuff only to rerelease it later in their mainstream line.
Did that for the Panther F with steel roadwheels already.
That and the "black plague" kits = not a good way to keep customers.
They're lucky other manufacturers aren't doing much German WW2 stuff.
Cheers,
Christophe
alchemymike
Joined: December 14, 2011
KitMaker: 208 posts
Armorama: 192 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 - 10:36 PM UTC
how about something new and exciting.... US Post War armor Atomic cannon in 1/35!
kjoy
Joined: September 11, 2005
KitMaker: 63 posts
Armorama: 57 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 01, 2015 - 12:17 AM UTC
Ya know there are plenty of companies doing what they do best...Dragon and German armor is a case in point. But how about releasing the two most overlooked Panthers? The "A" with zimrite and a bergepanther...make a lot of folks happy. Then again the some folks will complain that it was a Berge A instead of the G.
Jmarles
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 01, 2015 - 03:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Is that the same as the one released in their "exclusive" CyberHobby line?
If that's the case they rip off their customers yet again by fooling them into buying supposedly "exclusive" "limited edition" stuff only to rerelease it later in their mainstream line.
Did that for the Panther F with steel roadwheels already.
That and the "black plague" kits = not a good way to keep customers.
They're lucky other manufacturers aren't doing much German WW2 stuff.
Cheers,
Christophe
It will be interesting to see if they have included parts from their more recent Panther kits. If they have not, this kit actually dates back to the early nineties, I have the original release. It was later re-issued and also re-issued under the CyberHobby label.
C_JACQUEMONT
Joined: October 09, 2004
KitMaker: 2,433 posts
Armorama: 2,325 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 01, 2015 - 03:32 AM UTC
We're not talking about the same model.
I'm talking CyberHobby White Box (not orange box) ref.6419.
Cheers,
Christophe
I'm talking CyberHobby White Box (not orange box) ref.6419.
Cheers,
Christophe
SgtRam
Contributing Writer#197
Joined: March 06, 2011
KitMaker: 3,971 posts
Armorama: 2,859 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 01, 2015 - 03:39 AM UTC
Starting to think that some model companies should start charging based on the cost to engineer and create the molds, but then again us modelers would not be able to afford them, and the company would go out of business. Thus a company has to make the best of available molds by offering variants with slight changes to the kit. This helps in making more variants available, and the cost down.
It seems to me that a lot of modelers want everything EXACT everytime, no pleasing some people. If you are one of them, and think you can make a business out of it, start a model company and produce the EXACT model everytime.
We are living in a grand time for models. Never before in my modeling experience has there been so any different models available, and the quality of the kits are getting better. As for an EXACT representation, maybe you should read Bill Cross' post on why it is difficult to get the EXACT representation.
Modelers should be happy that companies are putting out models instead of constantly putting down the companies. I, for one, am getting sick of the constant negativity every time there is news about a new model kit. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you have something CONSTRUCTIVE to say, then state it.
It seems to me that a lot of modelers want everything EXACT everytime, no pleasing some people. If you are one of them, and think you can make a business out of it, start a model company and produce the EXACT model everytime.
We are living in a grand time for models. Never before in my modeling experience has there been so any different models available, and the quality of the kits are getting better. As for an EXACT representation, maybe you should read Bill Cross' post on why it is difficult to get the EXACT representation.
Modelers should be happy that companies are putting out models instead of constantly putting down the companies. I, for one, am getting sick of the constant negativity every time there is news about a new model kit. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you have something CONSTRUCTIVE to say, then state it.
tigerproductions
Joined: November 13, 2006
KitMaker: 238 posts
Armorama: 201 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 01, 2015 - 06:29 AM UTC
A Bergepanther from Dragon would make sense. It will not matter if it's an A or a G. That would be the logical conclusion after all their Panther kits. Why this again, I do not know. How hard would it be for them to do a Bergepanther when they already have the complete bottom hull. I don't understand them sometimes.
philmmusic
Joined: August 06, 2014
KitMaker: 70 posts
Armorama: 69 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 01, 2015 - 11:00 AM UTC
good post Sgt Ram!
thebear
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 01, 2015 - 04:23 PM UTC
BUT GUYS!!! Hey Dragon is listening to you ... You want Magic Tracks? Get the Cyber-Hobby kit ... If you want DS get the Dragon kit ... Quit complaining..
C_JACQUEMONT
Joined: October 09, 2004
KitMaker: 2,433 posts
Armorama: 2,325 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 01, 2015 - 07:05 PM UTC
CyberHobby kit is long OOP. My point is the CyberHobby selling slogan was "rarity and exclusivity" as emphasized by Dragon. Well that was a lie, changing tracks is just a detail to let them off the hook, technically yes there is a difference but they just misleaded their customers, who by the way paid a premium to get a CH white box kit.
The Panther F was even worse because the "regular" Dragon kit contained extra parts compared to the CyberHobby release.
Cheers,
Christophe
The Panther F was even worse because the "regular" Dragon kit contained extra parts compared to the CyberHobby release.
Cheers,
Christophe
thebear
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 01, 2015 - 07:45 PM UTC
I agree completely and was not happy when the Panther F kit came out ... For Dragon changing the tracks makes it a different kit ,so they are not misleading their clients..
So for those who missed it here's your chance to get it again..
The only good thing about this is that by changing the tracks we might get their African Tiger kit once again... I don't think we will see as much complaining from those who have been dreaming about getting their hands on that kit.
So for those who missed it here's your chance to get it again..
The only good thing about this is that by changing the tracks we might get their African Tiger kit once again... I don't think we will see as much complaining from those who have been dreaming about getting their hands on that kit.
Red_Tory
Joined: July 05, 2010
KitMaker: 102 posts
Armorama: 64 posts
Posted: Friday, January 02, 2015 - 10:37 PM UTC
I'll second kjoy's request for a Panther A with zimmerit. That will sell like hotcakes, especially if the zimmerit is as well done as it was on their Panther G.
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 04:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Starting to think that some model companies should start charging based on the cost to engineer and create the molds, but then again us modelers would not be able to afford them, and the company would go out of business. Thus a company has to make the best of available molds by offering variants with slight changes to the kit. This helps in making more variants available, and the cost down.
It seems to me that a lot of modelers want everything EXACT everytime, no pleasing some people. If you are one of them, and think you can make a business out of it, start a model company and produce the EXACT model everytime.
We are living in a grand time for models. Never before in my modeling experience has there been so any different models available, and the quality of the kits are getting better. As for an EXACT representation, maybe you should read Bill Cross' post on why it is difficult to get the EXACT representation.
Modelers should be happy that companies are putting out models instead of constantly putting down the companies. I, for one, am getting sick of the constant negativity every time there is news about a new model kit. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you have something CONSTRUCTIVE to say, then state it.
Nice post coming for a "Managing Editor"...
I for one will take your advice, and keep off posting any further comments here, so you don't have to deal with opinions that differ from your own ones.
You can keep trying to convince people that giving more and more money for kits that aren't up to XXI century standards is good and that they should be happy for that.
I'll keep taking care for my hard earned bucks, and modelling for my own satisfaction.
Bye fellas, good modelling to everyone and a great 2015!
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 06:12 AM UTC
In fairness to Kevin it can get a little soul destroying when every new kit you publish news of is either ignored or gets bashed. i know it is not every story but it does start to feel that way over time. How many times have we read "Not another German XYZ". Neither Kevin or I would try to stiffle discussion on the site and for that matter I enjoy a lively debate.
The case in point with this model is; is this the same kit that Cyber released with DS tracks rather than Magic Tracks? I have no idea if it is or not and neither do any of us until the model is in our grubby little hands.
As for why not an Allied vehicle? That is simple to answer, DML does German WW2 and as a rule they do German WW2 just about better than anyone else and have a better selection than anyone else. I know their standards have slipped of late bt they still do great German WW2 models. If you want to look for the Allies, take a look at Bronco Models, Trumpeter or HobbyBoss to name but a few.
For those that paid a premium for the Cyber kit I suppose you can say that they got it sooner than anyone else, assuming it is the same basic kit with a track material change and if that is the case I can understand the grumble about it.
Something I very strongly agree with is that I too would like to see a more accurate Bergepanther of the type Revell released, and I would fight you for it.
The case in point with this model is; is this the same kit that Cyber released with DS tracks rather than Magic Tracks? I have no idea if it is or not and neither do any of us until the model is in our grubby little hands.
As for why not an Allied vehicle? That is simple to answer, DML does German WW2 and as a rule they do German WW2 just about better than anyone else and have a better selection than anyone else. I know their standards have slipped of late bt they still do great German WW2 models. If you want to look for the Allies, take a look at Bronco Models, Trumpeter or HobbyBoss to name but a few.
For those that paid a premium for the Cyber kit I suppose you can say that they got it sooner than anyone else, assuming it is the same basic kit with a track material change and if that is the case I can understand the grumble about it.
Something I very strongly agree with is that I too would like to see a more accurate Bergepanther of the type Revell released, and I would fight you for it.
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 03, 2015 - 06:50 AM UTC
It looks like the CyberHobby Beob.Wg V white-box kit 6419, to me.
But that should be fine! The 6419 kit is a modern state-of-art CH white-box limited-ed kit, and, while a kit of a very rare beast (perhaps 40 -45 Panthers of all marks were converted to Beob.Wg in 1944-'45... of which probably one or maybe a few were Ausf D "prototypes to the general type"), it is a Dragon Panther... Lots of details and goodies, and a great kit, IMHO.
Much better that Dragon re-release this nice modern CH kit than recall their much older precious effort! And, as noted by others, now a modeler can get this former CH kit if he/she missed the original white-box version. And perhaps you'll get DS tracks... if they are what you want. Choice is GOOD!
But I still don't get the grumpies and unhappies being expressed by many in this comments on reviews... The review note was fine. The subject may or may not be of interest, but NOBODY who doesn't want either "another darned German thing from Dragon (arguably the real leader in 1/35 German armor kits)" or more particularly does not like this version has to BUY it. Just don't get one! Why carp and blast about it?
I like it! Even if I do have 3 of the originals!
Bob
But that should be fine! The 6419 kit is a modern state-of-art CH white-box limited-ed kit, and, while a kit of a very rare beast (perhaps 40 -45 Panthers of all marks were converted to Beob.Wg in 1944-'45... of which probably one or maybe a few were Ausf D "prototypes to the general type"), it is a Dragon Panther... Lots of details and goodies, and a great kit, IMHO.
Much better that Dragon re-release this nice modern CH kit than recall their much older precious effort! And, as noted by others, now a modeler can get this former CH kit if he/she missed the original white-box version. And perhaps you'll get DS tracks... if they are what you want. Choice is GOOD!
But I still don't get the grumpies and unhappies being expressed by many in this comments on reviews... The review note was fine. The subject may or may not be of interest, but NOBODY who doesn't want either "another darned German thing from Dragon (arguably the real leader in 1/35 German armor kits)" or more particularly does not like this version has to BUY it. Just don't get one! Why carp and blast about it?
I like it! Even if I do have 3 of the originals!
Bob
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Monday, January 05, 2015 - 09:07 PM UTC
Hey! panzerbob01!!! I thought I was nuts for buying TWO of the CYBERWALLET kits!!! I have since re-directed my 1/35 interests to US/Allied subjects, because, believe it or not, I think our stuff is MORE INTERESTING... My opinion...
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 01:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey! panzerbob01!!! I thought I was nuts for buying TWO of the CYBERWALLET kits!!! I have since re-directed my 1/35 interests to US/Allied subjects, because, believe it or not, I think our stuff is MORE INTERESTING... My opinion...
Dennis;
Yeah. But it IS a cool kit! I mean, really! Here you get a then state-of-the-art 50-ton battle-tank, with the improved commander's cupola (Prismakoppel), extra antenna, and enhanced radio suite fit for techno-kings and formal observer-types (I'll presume that they were indeed inside the real thing - they aren't actually present in the kit
), along with a super-duper wooden mock-gun that doesn't even look very real (but IS better, I suppose, than a simple piece of straight pipe stuck out there... ), in a neat one-tank package-deal featuring all the hugeness, great fuel economy, legendary reliability, and superlative sexy styling of your average Panther D... and all topped-off with one whole MG for the actual bang-bang stuff! What's not to like about all that?
OK, OK. So 3 may sound excessive (OK. It IS
). It's certainly more than a measly 2! But heck, I paid a whole 12 round men for one, $15 for another (sealed!), and a lordly $27 - shipped - off evilbay, for the 3rd. That last was, well, consequence of feeble-mindedness, I think. But I draw the limit! I ain't about buying any of these "CyberWallet" things new or at any collector's prices! 3 means that I get to build one, and each of my 2 kids can inherit one each: saves on squabbles over the estate dross, dings to child self-image, and potential siblicide, while also ensuring that each child gets SOMETHING when the Old Man finally leaves the building!
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 - 11:05 AM UTC
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, January 09, 2015 - 12:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextHey! panzerbob01!!! I thought I was nuts for buying TWO of the CYBERWALLET kits!!! I have since re-directed my 1/35 interests to US/Allied subjects, because, believe it or not, I think our stuff is MORE INTERESTING... My opinion...
Dennis;
Yeah. But it IS a cool kit! I mean, really! Here you get a then state-of-the-art 50-ton battle-tank, with the improved commander's cupola (Prismakoppel), extra antenna, and enhanced radio suite fit for techno-kings and formal observer-types (I'll presume that they were indeed inside the real thing - they aren't actually present in the kit
What's not to like about all that?
OK, OK. So 3 may sound excessive (OK. It IS
3 means that I get to build one, and each of my 2 kids can inherit one each: saves on squabbles over the estate dross, dings to child self-image, and potential siblicide, while also ensuring that each child gets SOMETHING when the Old Man finally leaves the building!
Hi! You want weird? I built a conversion of a T18 75mm HMC- This puppy is basically a turretless M3 Light Tank, built up with a miniaturized M3 Medium (Grant/Lee) upper superstructure with a 75mm Pack Howitzer mounted in a side-sponson very similar the the M3 Medium's 75mm gun. I found this thing in the pictorial book "SEARCHING FOR PERFECTION" An Encyclopedia of U.S. Army T-Series Vehicle Development 1925-1958 by David R. Haugh, and printed by PORTRAYAL PRESS. I've got to say, this book is FULL of all kinds of U.S. Army experimental and trial vehicles, including developmental stuff like the T-series light, medium and heavy tanks, armored cars, heavy armored half-tracks, light combat cars, prime movers, and wheeled anti-tank vehicles, etc.
I highly recommend this book to anyone that is interested in the development US Army AFVs and softskins...
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 08:09 AM UTC
I really don't get the exclusivity of Cyber Hobby. It is nice to make a small batch of a rare vehicle that a few modelers want. But the idea of 1 issue only doesn't make sense. As new modelers come along each year they to would like to buy some of these kits. I think it is also strange if the idea is a limited run is to help the collector value. I would like another run of Whitman's tiger. I told my hobby shop to order me one when I read about there upcoming release but they couldn't. I was told that they were all accounted for and they couldn't get any. If that is the case why not have a second run if the market is not saturated?
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 07:33 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I really don't get the exclusivity of Cyber Hobby. It is nice to make a small batch of a rare vehicle that a few modelers want. But the idea of 1 issue only doesn't make sense. As new modelers come along each year they to would like to buy some of these kits. I think it is also strange if the idea is a limited run is to help the collector value. I would like another run of Whitman's tiger. I told my hobby shop to order me one when I read about there upcoming release but they couldn't. I was told that they were all accounted for and they couldn't get any. If that is the case why not have a second run if the market is not saturated?
Hi, All! I'd venture to say that "Wittman's Tiger" can be re-created with any number of DRAGON's newer Mid-to-Late Tiger I kits, without having to pay two, three, or even four times the price for one of the original kits. You can kit-bash or use after-market parts, plus acquire decals to re-create Wittman's Tiger...
Maybe that's why CYBERHOBBY/DRAGON hasn't re-popped that particular kit. Remember also, that DRAGON has "improved" some of their Tiger I kits, so you'd probably be further ahead money-wise if you built a kit-bash, and/or used after-market bits and pieces. There are plenty of those out there, as well as a multitude of Tiger I decal and/or dry-transfer sets...
The original CYBERHOBBY "Wittman Tiger" was one of their initially released Tiger I kits, which have been "improved/corrected" over the years.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2015 - 07:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Interesting as I thought they already had one out.
You know, to this day I have NEVER seen a real photo of one of these.
Jeff
Hi, Jeff! I've seen a number of photos of this vehicle, one of which comes to mind- Check out this book, if you can find it: "Peter Chamberlain & Chris Ellis PICTORIAL HISTORY OF TANKS OF THE WORLD 1915-1945, distributed by Gallahad Books. This book is a WONDERFUL REFERENCE, filled with some of the most obscure AFVs you'll ever see, including such odd-balls as a Pz.Kpfw III with a FAMO suspension!!!
I dare any model company to produce one of those in 1/35!!!
PS- I seem to remember the RYTON Pz.Kpfw V "Panther" book also showed pictures of the Beobachtungspanzer Panther, I believe in the Panther Ausf.D section...
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