An announcement from Dragon Models has command variant of the big gunned tank on the way.
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Dragon: Command Brummbär
SgtRam
Contributing Writer
#197
Joined: March 06, 2011
KitMaker: 3,971 posts
Armorama: 2,859 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 06:07 AM UTC
An announcement from Dragon Models has command variant of the big gunned tank on the way.
Read the Full News Story
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
johhar
Joined: September 22, 2008
KitMaker: 476 posts
Armorama: 447 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 07:11 AM UTC
I understand they want to get the maximum return on the investment in their molds, but I wish they'd throw in an updated late Brummbar with the machine gun in the high mount and the different commander's hatch and rear hatch instead of the umpteenth early/middle.
Youngun
Joined: November 10, 2010
KitMaker: 587 posts
Armorama: 550 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 07:14 AM UTC
So besides the extra antenna's what makes this Brummbar different from the five/six however many Brummbars Dragon has released? Will I just be getting the same kit but with the star antenna sprue? Really seems like laziness on the part of dragon releasing the same kits over and over with one minor difference. If one already had a Dragon Brummbar and wanted to make it a command version wouldn't just buying the Tasca/Asuka Star Antenna set make more financial sense instead of buying a whole new 50$+ kit?
obg153
Joined: April 07, 2009
KitMaker: 1,063 posts
Armorama: 1,049 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 07:25 AM UTC
Wonder when they'll release a Command Kettenkrad??
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 07:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So besides the extra antenna's what makes this Brummbar different from the five/six however many Brummbars Dragon has released? Will I just be getting the same kit but with the star antenna sprue? Really seems like laziness on the part of dragon releasing the same kits over and over with one minor difference. If one already had a Dragon Brummbar and wanted to make it a command version wouldn't just buying the Tasca/Asuka Star Antenna set make more financial sense instead of buying a whole new 50$+ kit?
More exactly, this "new" "Command-Brummbar Ausf A" looks just like the "Sd.Kfz. 166 Stu.Pz. IV Brummbar early production w/ zimmerit" kit 6596... with the addition of a sternantenna on the right-hand mount! How funny. Wonder if it comes with DS or with magic-tracks?
I'll suppose that it is "legit", in that probably at least one of the 40 or so early's which survived Kursk went on to become a "command brummie" after these survivors were refurbed at Nibelungenwerke (where they received the now-regulation zimmerit and the redone schurzen), and then shipped off to sunny Italy "for the duration". But, yes, seems that Dragon is truly stretching, here!
A sternantenna seconded from some other kit or sourced AM would, I think, easily make for this version right off of that "early - zimm'd kit". Of course, if you don't happen to have one of those on hand, well... here you go! An early-zimm'd kit with sternantenna included!I am sure that this new early w/ zimm kit will be nice - kit 6596 is a super great kit, so this re-release will be, as well. The zimm is, IMHO, super good and among the best the D has done on any pre-zimm'd kit I've seen.
Yeah. I would love to see a new Brummie late come along, with or without zimm! I'd buy one - I already have the early-zimm'd kit and don't need another, just to get a stern-a version onto my shelf.
Bob
C_JACQUEMONT
Joined: October 09, 2004
KitMaker: 2,433 posts
Armorama: 2,325 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 08:30 AM UTC
Plus that early zimmerited Brummbar was a CyberHobby white box release, so Dragon again rip off the customers they sold a supposedly exclusive and expensive model. Now a new sprue and it's not so exclusive.
I wonder why I buy less and less Dragon/CH kits those days.
Cheers,
Christophe
I wonder why I buy less and less Dragon/CH kits those days.
Cheers,
Christophe
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 11:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Wonder when they'll release a Command Kettenkrad??
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 01:28 PM UTC
Why so many complaints when a new kit is released? Either because it is only slightly different, or has troubles, or is not the version you expected... every announce has negative comments.
All kits hve their market, I may prefer the Command version over the regular one,or perhaps I do not care the xxxx kit is off by 5 mm because I always wanted one.
While it is fine to point out defects and suggest new models to manufacturers, I think it could be done in a constructive way, there is no need to make them feel they are releasing crap.
But this is only my opinion.
All kits hve their market, I may prefer the Command version over the regular one,or perhaps I do not care the xxxx kit is off by 5 mm because I always wanted one.
While it is fine to point out defects and suggest new models to manufacturers, I think it could be done in a constructive way, there is no need to make them feel they are releasing crap.
But this is only my opinion.
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 02:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Why so many complaints when a new kit is released? Either because it is only slightly different, or has troubles, or is not the version you expected... every announce has negative comments.
All kits hve their market, I may prefer the Command version over the regular one,or perhaps I do not care the xxxx kit is off by 5 mm because I always wanted one.
While it is fine to point out defects and suggest new models to manufacturers, I think it could be done in a constructive way, there is no need to make them feel they are releasing crap.
But this is only my opinion.
Yes, but ...
Other companies have started giving us new kits of exciting
new subjects so it is easy to feel slightly disappointed
when Dragon release "yet another Panzer" instead of a
kit for some vehicle which has not been available in any
form at all or maybe an expensive resin kit.
I do understand the economics of it (take existing sprues,
combine in a new way and Hey Presto! a "new" kit ...).
If there wasn't already a good/reasonable Brummbär I
would be excited, but not now ....
Maybe Dragon will soon run out of new ideas for "yet
another Panzer" and then they will have to come up with
something new instead of some Pz that rolled out of the
factory on October 13th 1944 (the afternoon version
where painter Müller had made a slight mistake ....).
There is still some not yet released german stuff (even if
Dragon has almost covered all versions of Panzers).
It is like trying to be excited over a new pair of socks
for Christmas, "Hurrah !! More black socks but these have
a slightly different texture of the knitting ...
" / Robin
Jmarles
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 03:38 PM UTC
Well, for those who don't have the previous incarnations I am sure it will be welcome release; it certainly looks quite nice. It would be nice to see some much needed German kits - there are a lot of trucks, buses, trailers, staff cars, etc that would be most welcome. Dragon seems to just be reboxing kits these days except for the "Black Plague" kits. And yeah, different tracks, decals or antennae is pretty much a rebox...the only issue I have with Dragon reboxes is when they abandon accuracy to release a mix n match kit,like the Wittman stug based on an incorrect chassis, which is just plain annoying. That being said, the Hummel-Wespe thing looks intriguing... 
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 05:56 PM UTC
Why is it that people bust Dragon's chops for maximizing their moods but says nothing about the many T62/72/80s that Trumpeter comes out with? Why don't you guys give it a rest-if you don't like it don't buy it.
SEDimmick
Joined: March 15, 2002
KitMaker: 1,745 posts
Armorama: 1,483 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 06:08 PM UTC
Hey Dan the problem is that Dragon is a popular target for doing stupid stuff like this and well as for Trumpeter and its T-series...they've never been done before in plastic and more often then not have more parts that are different then putting in zimmerited parts and an antenna.
Dragon is all about doing the day of the week production build of German tanks that are barely different from one another...it gets to the point that its the point of diminishing returns on it. They'd be better off putting the options all in a single box, it be cheaper too since you wouldn't have to spend money printing out new boxes that cost more then the plastic in the box!
Dragon is all about doing the day of the week production build of German tanks that are barely different from one another...it gets to the point that its the point of diminishing returns on it. They'd be better off putting the options all in a single box, it be cheaper too since you wouldn't have to spend money printing out new boxes that cost more then the plastic in the box!
Byrden
Joined: July 12, 2005
KitMaker: 2,233 posts
Armorama: 2,221 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 06:37 PM UTC
>> "if you don't like it don't buy it"
Unfortunately some of us can't all look into the box before ordering something. So we can't know in advance whether we will like it. And that's why this thread exists. Your solution is not useful to those people.
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 06:42 PM UTC
It's the attitude David that bugs me-also, wait for a online review to see what the new kit gives and not gives.
OldWarloke
Joined: October 14, 2012
KitMaker: 2,663 posts
Armorama: 2,649 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 06:48 PM UTC
I already have the early & mid production with zimmerit, don't need the starr antenna one
varanusk
Managing EditorJoined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 07:00 PM UTC
Hi,
My comment was not aimed at reviews, which are welcome and needed, but to sterile negative comments just because the kit is not what *you* expect.
It is great to have all the information, but then let each one decide if they like (and will buy) it or not.
There is no need to thrash the company. The more models, the better. The market as a whole (and not my opinion here) will show them through sales if they are doing right.
My comment was not aimed at reviews, which are welcome and needed, but to sterile negative comments just because the kit is not what *you* expect.
It is great to have all the information, but then let each one decide if they like (and will buy) it or not.
There is no need to thrash the company. The more models, the better. The market as a whole (and not my opinion here) will show them through sales if they are doing right.
C_JACQUEMONT
Joined: October 09, 2004
KitMaker: 2,433 posts
Armorama: 2,325 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 07:15 PM UTC
What about the ripped off customers? They're taking the blow for the good of the overall community?
Been there done that, not anymore. Dragon can't have their cake and eat it.
Cheers,
Christophe
Been there done that, not anymore. Dragon can't have their cake and eat it.
Cheers,
Christophe
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 07:24 PM UTC
If you get "ripped off" by not reading a review first hand then it's your own fault. You know that Dragon reuses their molds-read a review before buying.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 08:28 PM UTC
The "Thng" is - that since around 2000 Dragon has built up a solid fan base (except for die-hard Tamiyaholics! 
) with their state-of-the-art, and better than before, kits, in Dragon's golden days of included turned aluminum barrels, and PE coming out the wazoo! And every couple of months a new and completely different kit! If we didn't like the current release then we eagerly awaited the next one. Now, with increased prices, and the reduction (to the point of nil) in-box goodies, and the constant re-hashing of 10+ yr old kits with a couple of new parts to make a "new" kit, it is difficult not to feel cynical, and have a feeling of 'betrayal' from our once beloved company. Maybe Dragon doesn't 'owe' us any 'loyalty' for faithfully buying their products, and "if you don't like it - don't buy it". Well, I'm more than a little disappointed in Dragon's recent marketing, and the last time I bought a Dragon kit it was a ship model! 
) with their state-of-the-art, and better than before, kits, in Dragon's golden days of included turned aluminum barrels, and PE coming out the wazoo! And every couple of months a new and completely different kit! If we didn't like the current release then we eagerly awaited the next one. Now, with increased prices, and the reduction (to the point of nil) in-box goodies, and the constant re-hashing of 10+ yr old kits with a couple of new parts to make a "new" kit, it is difficult not to feel cynical, and have a feeling of 'betrayal' from our once beloved company. Maybe Dragon doesn't 'owe' us any 'loyalty' for faithfully buying their products, and "if you don't like it - don't buy it". Well, I'm more than a little disappointed in Dragon's recent marketing, and the last time I bought a Dragon kit it was a ship model! 
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 09:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Dragon is all about doing the day of the week production build of German tanks that are barely different from one another...it gets to the point that its the point of diminishing returns on it. They'd be better off putting the options all in a single box, it be cheaper too since you wouldn't have to spend money printing out new boxes that cost more then the plastic in the box!
If it is so beneficial, you have to wonder why they don't do it. I can only guess that they have different information and perform a different calculus when determining how to run their business.
KL
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 09:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
What about the ripped off customers? They're taking the blow for the good of the overall community?
You aren't ripped off if you don't buy it. As to the different wrappers the same or similar kits may come in, at different prices, I think if you freely paid the price and got what you expected, it's hard to say you were ripped off. After all, the same kit may go on sale at another store for 50% less a week after you bought it. That doesn't mean you were deceived or defrauded when you willingly forked over twice as much a month before or later.
KL
Gewehr43
Joined: May 12, 2014
KitMaker: 105 posts
Armorama: 68 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 10:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
>> "if you don't like it don't buy it"
Unfortunately some of us can't all look into the box before ordering something. So we can't know in advance whether we will like it. And that's why this thread exists. Your solution is not useful to those people.
I have to disagree with you here. The internet is chock full of information on nearly every modern kit out there. A few minutes of research before adding an item to your cart will tell you exactly what's in most kits.
The people that would find this thread useful are the same people that could do a little digging beforehand and make an informed decision prior to purchase.
obg153
Joined: April 07, 2009
KitMaker: 1,063 posts
Armorama: 1,049 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 11:10 PM UTC
Early war panzer doctrine did emphasize "command & control" from forward points on the battlefield. We already have kits of command versions of every major German tank design, from Pz1's all the way to Tiger II's, plus Stug III/IV's, and assorted SPG's. Plus, a number of kits of half-track & other soft skin command vehicles. So it seems inevitable there would come a Brummie version. (Hence my prior remark re; kettenkrads). From a "realistic use" standpoint, if I were a panzer officer at a level where I could use a fully armed tank as my command vehicle, I wouldn't choose an overweight, under-powered bunker-on-wheels that was prone to mechanical breakdowns. At a higher level I'd be telling junior officers that fully armed tanks go to front line units, if you want a command vehicle, get a Horch!
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 11:36 PM UTC
Jack;
Yes - panzer units did indeed have command and control vehicles - the unit leaders of about every army which had (and has today) some increased commo capabilities, etc. THIS "new" Brummie likely represents the company commander's vehicle, with an additional radio-set and (stern)antenna. Dragon has actually already produced the mid-production StuPa, both with and without zimm, in a "2 for 1" SmartKit with allows for the "command vehicle". THIS new offering does the same provision for the "early StuPa w/ zimm" - which option ("command") was simply not included in the original early-zim kit 6596... unlike that feature being included in those mid-production SmartKits. I guess this could simply have been an oversight? Maybe Dragon thought that "early StuPa" units did not have commanders with extra radios - something maybe come to be only with later StuPas?
@Christophe; Actually, the kit 6596 is a Dragon SmartKit - not a limited-production CH whitebox kit. CH did release the early StuPa without zimm - and without any sternantenna feature.
Bob
Yes - panzer units did indeed have command and control vehicles - the unit leaders of about every army which had (and has today) some increased commo capabilities, etc. THIS "new" Brummie likely represents the company commander's vehicle, with an additional radio-set and (stern)antenna. Dragon has actually already produced the mid-production StuPa, both with and without zimm, in a "2 for 1" SmartKit with allows for the "command vehicle". THIS new offering does the same provision for the "early StuPa w/ zimm" - which option ("command") was simply not included in the original early-zim kit 6596... unlike that feature being included in those mid-production SmartKits. I guess this could simply have been an oversight? Maybe Dragon thought that "early StuPa" units did not have commanders with extra radios - something maybe come to be only with later StuPas?
@Christophe; Actually, the kit 6596 is a Dragon SmartKit - not a limited-production CH whitebox kit. CH did release the early StuPa without zimm - and without any sternantenna feature.
Bob
Charlie-66
#186
Joined: May 24, 2006
KitMaker: 771 posts
Armorama: 750 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 02:33 AM UTC
I think there are more than enough reviews on this and other sites so that most people don't have to make a purchase blindly. It pays to wait until the reviews are out if for no other reason than you can wait until the kit in question goes on sale. Now me personally, I want Dragon to make my old M60A1 Rise Passive tank with the dozer blade on the front and markings from H Co 2/3 ACR. Not holding my breath though. Until that happens I'll read the reviews and buy the kits that interest me. In the mean time I'm not going to cast aspersions on Dragon either.
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