Hi, Everyone! Just a general question: Which 1/35 M1 Abrams kit would be best-suited to replicate an initial (1980) M1? I welcome all advice and opinions. Older TAMIYA? Or the the older DRAGON M1A1?

(I LOVE the later DRAGON 3535 M1A1 AIM, 3536 M1A2 SEP, and their latest 3556 M1A2 SEP V2...)

You can't replicate an original series "plain jane" or "slick" M1 with the Dragon kit. The Tamiya kit is the only game in town and even with all its faults does a pretty good job of replicating the prototypes. The (older)Dragon kit is an approximation of an M1A1 and has a number of detail differences- larger turret, something resembling anti skid compound on horizontal surfaces, larger gun, different turret details, etc.

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Hi, Everyone! Just a general question: Which 1/35 M1 Abrams kit would be best-suited to replicate an initial (1980) M1? I welcome all advice and opinions. Older TAMIYA? Or the the older DRAGON M1A1?

(I LOVE the later DRAGON 3535 M1A1 AIM, 3536 M1A2 SEP, and their latest 3556 M1A2 SEP V2...)

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Tamiya's kit depicts an XM1 prototype or very early M1. The blowout panels on the turret roof are trapezoidal in shape, but soon into production, the shape was changed to two narrow rectangles flanking a larger rectangular panel in the center. It's not a difficult fix with some sheet plastic.

The only other M1 kits were the long-departed Esci M1, which had a dreadful representation of the exhaust louvers, and, if I remember correctly, an early Academy clone of the Tamiya item.

Academy's M1A1 kit has an M1 turret shell (except for the blowout panels), and could be suitable for backdating, if you're adventurous (it cannot be built into an accurate M1A1, because the turret is too short).

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Hi, Everyone! Just a general question: Which 1/35 M1 Abrams kit would be best-suited to replicate an initial (1980) M1? I welcome all advice and opinions. Older TAMIYA? Or the the older DRAGON M1A1?

(I LOVE the later DRAGON 3535 M1A1 AIM, 3536 M1A2 SEP, and their latest 3556 M1A2 SEP V2...)

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Tamiya's kit depicts an XM1 prototype or very early M1. The blowout panels on the turret roof are trapezoidal in shape, but soon into production, the shape was changed to two narrow rectangles flanking a larger rectangular panel in the center. It's not a difficult fix with some sheet plastic.

The only other M1 kits were the long-departed Esci M1, which had a dreadful representation of the exhaust louvers, and, if I remember correctly, an early Academy clone of the Tamiya item.

Academy's M1A1 kit has an M1 turret shell (except for the blowout panels), and could be suitable for backdating, if you're adventurous (it cannot be built into an accurate M1A1, because the turret is too short).

Another question: Have M1A1 AIMs or M1A2 SEPs ever had Mk.19 Grenade Launchers mounted on them?

Tamiya's kit depicts an XM1 prototype or very early M1. The blowout panels on the turret roof are trapezoidal in shape, but soon into production, the shape was changed to two narrow rectangles flanking a larger rectangular panel in the center. It's not a difficult fix with some sheet plastic.

So, before posing my question on ARMORAMA, I bought several M1 reference books, finding out that what I want to create, are FOUR DIFFERENT versions of the early M1: The XM-1, the M1, the IP M1, and the M1E1... Having learned A LOT from my new resources, I find that now I REEEALLY have my work cut out for me-

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Tamiya's kit depicts an XM1 prototype or very early M1. The blowout panels on the turret roof are trapezoidal in shape, but soon into production, the shape was changed to two narrow rectangles flanking a larger rectangular panel in the center. It's not a difficult fix with some sheet plastic.

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Any proof for that?

Possibly.
I did a walkaround of the fourth prototype ever produced, and I recall them to be rectangular. I don't have access to my photos right now but if anyone cares (and remembers) I'll check them when I can.

Not to complicate things, but iIIRC there were both short and long turret M-1IPs... 84 short turret models were built before the M1E1 armor was added to create the long turret IPs, which also added the future CITV manhole...

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Not to complicate things, but iIIRC there were both short and long turret M-1IPs... 84 short turret models were built before the M1E1 armor was added to create the long turret IPs, which also added the future CITV manhole...

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IPM1s (or M1IPs, or Improved, or whatever) are a fairly common topic of confusion it seems. Let's try to clarify. ALL "IPM1"s had the uparmored turret design of the M1A1. The designation "improved performance" was instituted to differentiate the models that had received improvements to the armor package, changes to the suspension, and regearing of the transmission to accommodate the added weight. It does not signify the addition of a bustle rack. The rack was instituted by modification work order at the end of the initial M1 contract, and was also retrofitted by work order in the field or at depot level. The M1E1 test and validation program had not completed evaluation of the XM256 gun, but the other improvements were signed off and the army either made a change order or cut a new contract for the 894 IPM1 units produced. This was done in part to keep the GDLS production line moving and in part to allow a smooth changeover to M1A1 production in the 1985/86 timeframe. IMP1s are a mix of features as a result of the phase-in of features. Early models had the uparmored turret from the start, but had early M1 features otherwise, like the early style Gunner's Primary Sight housing, short turret rails, and a non integrated bustle rack. (CAT 87 winners 4/8 CAV rode these for example) Late models had the same GPS housing as early M1A1s and integrated side rails meeting up with the bustle rack. No IPM1s had the "manhole cover" cut into the roof, since the earliest M1A1s produced in the 85-87 timeframe also did not have it. A lot of sources have misidentified M1s as IPs solely due to the presence of the rack, and that is incorrect.

When all else fails, look for the identifying features of the uparmored turret: Increased distance between the turret face and the tow cable storage post, The auxiliary sight aperture being a half circle like M1A1/A2 instead of full circle, and the searchlight/equipment mount at the top of the mantelet being bent and not straight out. There are other threads hosted here on this subject that have visuals of the identification points in case i'm not making sense.

Pawel,
I concur with your statement on the blow off measurements and Tamiya's exaggerated representation on their M1 kit. After measuring a 05XX serial numbered (built in 1984) M1 tank in 2007 and found that all three panels are trapezoids with the tops and bottoms of each of the three panels about an inch/25mm difference at the top and bottoms of each of the panels. Additionally, I compared the M1 pictures to those I had of a 00XX serial number (built in 1979) XM1 tank and guess what, both vehicles had the identical panel configuration. I will post the pictures and panel measurements when I get home from work tonight


John

You know, with the wealth (relatively speaking) of new M1 kits on the market, why hasn't anyone stepped up and done a conversion set to backdate one of the existing kits to an M1 or IPM1? Everyone figures there are too many of the original Tamiya kits floating around???

Damon.

I seem to remember a posting by our friend Gary on M-L some years back with measurements that indicated that they were just about square?

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I seem to remember a posting by our friend Gary on M-L some years back with measurements that indicated that they were just about square?

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Yea, well, you are about to see them measurements again. As for the late Cold War models, perhaps Pawel an get this "friends at DML to get an IP out in plastic. Not holding my breath but the M113 FoV is suffering from the same lack of "respect"

JC

I seem to remember a posting by our friend Gary on M-L some years back with measurements that indicated that they were just about square?

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I seem to remember a posting by our friend Gary on M-L some years back with measurements that indicated that they were just about square?

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I think we are talking about these pictures I saved some times ago from M-L forum. Sorry I don't remember the autor.
Panel are not rectangular

The rack was instituted by modification work order at the end of the initial M1 contract, and was also retrofitted by work order in the field or at depot level.