AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
Painting a desert tiger I
jmsbd07
Minnesota, United States
Joined: April 11, 2014
KitMaker: 96 posts
Armorama: 94 posts
Joined: April 11, 2014
KitMaker: 96 posts
Armorama: 94 posts
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2015 - 07:31 PM UTC
I am wondering what different processes would I use on weathering a Tiger I in Tunisia, as there is a solid color of either Tamiya dark yellow or Vallejio ochre. Then I plan to do some chipping with Tamiya hull red mixed with buff, and some Tamyia German grey. Besides modulation, and chipping, could washes be used on it? Also I am wondering about using Vallejio sand yellow or buff in light coats for replicating sand that has built up on the vehicle.
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 05:52 AM UTC
The chips should not be large enough to warrant their own wash. I assume you mean to use pin washes, for the build up of sand. Just remember, sand builds up on everything. This will certainly diminish other washes, possibly to the point that they would be redundant. A pin wash of brown shade, with that of an overall sand wash should accent the details nicely. Just mho.
SSGToms
Connecticut, United States
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 09:10 AM UTC
Pin washes of burnt umber oils in the recesses and lines and around bolts, etc. will add depth to the details and finish. Misting the whole vehicle with Buff will simulate the ever present sand that sticks to everything. Next an application of Ammo of Mig #106 Washable Sand is excellent for corners and around details. Finally a conservative application of appropriately colored pigments will finish the look and give you an outstanding Tropen Tiger I!
Posted: Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 09:24 AM UTC
Also, don't forget the bleaching effect of the desert sun, especially on horizontal surfaces. I like to mix a color quite a bit lighter than my base color and then shoot a good dusting from above the model. Could achieve the same effect by drybrushing, but I don't have much success drybrushing acrylics.
Posted: Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 10:41 AM UTC
Hi Tommy,
I concur with the proceeding advice.
If you want to fiddle with being picky, then one thing to consider is that Tigers in Africa were pre-dark yellow. Many were painted RAL 8020 base and about 1/3 RAL 7027.
Tiger 131 at Bovington Tank Museum was captured in N.A.; Bovington recently completed a thorough restoration, during which they found original paint hidden and protected form the elements: http://www.tiger-tank.com
Here is a list of known Tunisian Tigers, with one or two color(?) photos: http://tiger1.info/tank-page/501-Africa-list.html
David Byrden is considered a go-to guy for the Tiger and this post of his is interesting: http://worldwartwozone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/15952-panzer-colours-via-david-byrden/
I hope this helps.
I concur with the proceeding advice.
If you want to fiddle with being picky, then one thing to consider is that Tigers in Africa were pre-dark yellow. Many were painted RAL 8020 base and about 1/3 RAL 7027.
Tiger 131 at Bovington Tank Museum was captured in N.A.; Bovington recently completed a thorough restoration, during which they found original paint hidden and protected form the elements: http://www.tiger-tank.com
Here is a list of known Tunisian Tigers, with one or two color(?) photos: http://tiger1.info/tank-page/501-Africa-list.html
David Byrden is considered a go-to guy for the Tiger and this post of his is interesting: http://worldwartwozone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/15952-panzer-colours-via-david-byrden/
I hope this helps.
Posted: Thursday, March 26, 2015 - 10:42 AM UTC
One other thing. I don't know if it is still accepted but years ago it was accepted that some Tunisian Tigers were an olive green (speculated by some to have been from Italian air force stock). That's how I built mine.
GeraldOwens
Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Friday, March 27, 2015 - 08:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
One other thing. I don't know if it is still accepted but years ago it was accepted that some Tunisian Tigers were an olive green (speculated by some to have been from Italian air force stock). That's how I built mine.
The origin of this was Colonel Jarrett's Technical Intelligence report on the Tiger wrecks his team examined in Tunisia (some of which were fired on for evaluation purposes). He was mainly interested in things like armor thickness, firepower, and the vehicle's drive train and suspension, but in his notes, he mentioned the color, "green." His photos were all black and white. That's basically it. The color photos of the wrecks from the Life Magazine Archives, which have been available online for a while, now, don't any show green Tigers, though. To be fair, one of the four colors authorized for tropical use was a bit greenish.
Forty years later, Wolfgang Schneider asked Tunisian Tiger veterans if they painted their equipment green, and some recalled repainting vehicles with captured US paint stocks (Tunisia's countryside is greener than Libya or Egypt). Whether this can be relied on after so many decades is uncertain, as they may have been unconsciously adapting their recollections to suit Schneider's questions (historians, much like police detectives, have to be careful about inadvertently feeding information to people they interview). So, maybe there were some Olive Drab Tigers that evaded the photographer's lenses, maybe not. At this late date, your guess is as good as mine.
dommy20
California, United States
Joined: July 30, 2010
KitMaker: 133 posts
Armorama: 40 posts
Joined: July 30, 2010
KitMaker: 133 posts
Armorama: 40 posts
Posted: Friday, March 27, 2015 - 09:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Then I plan to do some chipping with Tamiya hull red mixed with buff, and some Tamyia German grey.
Say if I may weigh in on this aspect, please skip the chipping! Not just because "chipping" is sooooo overused, but it really isn't necessary! At what earthly point would any Tiger in Tunisia suffer such distress that paint would be worn down to the primer? Ok, I know, we don't want it to look boring so a lil of the grey on the edges is nice cause it gives a good effect artistically.
It's a fad that will be with us for a while, but you don't need it. What was the service life of a Tiger in the Tunisian theatre? How many of them saw extended combat before being abandoned? How much paint on high upper surfaces will be worn off by driving through low scrub? These tanks weren't repainted with some thin white-wash style concoction, they were painted pre-theatre at the factories (as I understand) and so the paint will be rather robust.
As you said with your other plans, there are so many other weathering options to use. Sun bleaching, dust and sand in all the nooks and crannies, pin washes to bring out shadows. I think doing the chipping will be out of place and unnecessary for this particular Tiger. And yes I acknowledge that it is just ma' two cents!!
Homer0331
Missouri, United States
Joined: March 19, 2014
KitMaker: 148 posts
Armorama: 148 posts
Joined: March 19, 2014
KitMaker: 148 posts
Armorama: 148 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 28, 2015 - 05:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThen I plan to do some chipping with Tamiya hull red mixed with buff, and some Tamyia German grey.
Say if I may weigh in on this aspect, please skip the chipping! Not just because "chipping" is sooooo overused, but it really isn't necessary! At what earthly point would any Tiger in Tunisia suffer such distress that paint would be worn down to the primer? Ok, I know, we don't want it to look boring so a lil of the grey on the edges is nice cause it gives a good effect artistically.
It's a fad that will be with us for a while, but you don't need it. What was the service life of a Tiger in the Tunisian theatre? How many of them saw extended combat before being abandoned? How much paint on high upper surfaces will be worn off by driving through low scrub? These tanks weren't repainted with some thin white-wash style concoction, they were painted pre-theatre at the factories (as I understand) and so the paint will be rather robust.
As you said with your other plans, there are so many other weathering options to use. Sun bleaching, dust and sand in all the nooks and crannies, pin washes to bring out shadows. I think doing the chipping will be out of place and unnecessary for this particular Tiger. And yes I acknowledge that it is just ma' two cents!!
Exactly.
None of those vehicles were in country long enough to warrant that level of wear. Also remember these were purpose built, read modified, for that campaign and as such factory painted in their base colors.
The Bovington Tiger, based on the known timeline, was in Tunisia a maximum of 6 weeks before capture. True 501's Tigers were operational longer but, IMHO, not long enough to be badly beaten up.
I personally don't see RAL 8020/7027 on these 501 Tigers. We know Bovington's 131 was RAL 8000/7008 and it arrived in theater after sPzAbt 501's Tigers.
RAL 8000/7008 is decidedly green in appearance and again, IMHO, contribute to the tales of green Tigers in Tunisia.