Hosted by Darren Baker
European M47 Patton
long_tom
Illinois, United States
Joined: March 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 12:06 AM UTC
I've read that Italeri's M47 Patton is a wonderful kit despite its age. I note that there are several European versions, and they're supposed to be all olive drab. But I assume each nation would repaint their armor in their own national colors as time goes on. So, who did what?
jphillips
Arizona, United States
Joined: February 25, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 12:43 AM UTC
Let me see what I can dig up for you.
Frenchy
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 01:07 AM UTC
jphillips
Arizona, United States
Joined: February 25, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 02:53 AM UTC
hobgrot
United States
Joined: August 06, 2011
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Joined: August 06, 2011
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 09:35 AM UTC
The Italeri kit is wonderful ! Has separate engine-deck hatches & a basic engine/gearbox insert.
Somalia had a number of M-47s (both sand & green).... that didn't last very long !
Somalia had a number of M-47s (both sand & green).... that didn't last very long !
long_tom
Illinois, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 09:39 PM UTC
Was the French vehicle painted the same olive color as the EBR-series vehicles?
vettejack
Florida, United States
Joined: November 23, 2012
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Posted: Monday, May 16, 2016 - 08:56 PM UTC
Posted: Monday, May 16, 2016 - 09:07 PM UTC
The Germans repainted theirs in Gelboliv, but I think they were all retired ages before the NATO 3-tone came in. There's plenty of photos on the web of their tanks, complete with "iron cross" symbols on the turret!
mmeier
Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: October 22, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 - 12:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The Germans repainted theirs in Gelboliv, but I think they were all retired ages before the NATO 3-tone came in. There's plenty of photos on the web of their tanks, complete with "iron cross" symbols on the turret!
Tankograd has a booklet out on the M47 and M41 in german service. These two where the first tanks in (West)German service and went through some changes.
All where out well before 3-tone, not sure if they ever went RAL6014 or stayed OD. The initial entry even pre-dates the painting of national symbols on combat vehicles so there where some without an "Iron Cross" on the turret.
Gepardschrauber
Bayern, Germany
Joined: December 02, 2015
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 10:36 PM UTC
Some of the German M74 were modified for longer service. This meant that the hull gunner was deleted and the driver was moved to the left side. The former drivers space was used for additional 90 mm amo. At least these vehicles were equipped with smoke chargers and painted in RAL 6014 gelboliv.
Jürgen
Jürgen
mmeier
Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: October 22, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 02:49 AM UTC
Actually the driver was always located on the left side (looking from the rear) with the gunner on the right. That is also the configuration used by say the Panther and makes the most sense in such a configuration (seating the driver the same side as in a truck/car)
Rather early (no national markings) BW training film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1_A6u3tKl4
Rather early (no national markings) BW training film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1_A6u3tKl4
Gepardschrauber
Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 10:03 AM UTC
Sorry. Meant the other left
Bravo1102
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 11:26 AM UTC
Don't be so quick to ditch the US olive drab on M47s. The Military Aid and Assistance Command that gave these vehicles to allied countries provided spare parts and that included paint.
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 11:36 AM UTC
That Portuguese M47 camo reminds me of the Wehrmacht's beloved 3-tone schemes.
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 11:40 AM UTC
I've GOT to build mine someday. Perhaps it is because I grew up when M47s were in some big movies, but I've always thought it to be a good looking almost racy design. Aesthetically, I'd move the turret back a foot or two but all in all, a good looking tank.
agtquimi
Burgos, Spain / España
Joined: September 08, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 01:21 PM UTC
Spain was also a M47 user
Our tanks suffer some local updates, called M47E1 and E2 (first they were upadted to the M47E type changing the engine to the M48 diesel type and the engine area encasement, and deletion of one of the wheels)
E1, basicaly, added german style smoke dischargers, deletion of hull machine gun, subtitution of the coax Browning for an MG3, and best optical equipment
The E2 update also included a 105 mm gun (RH105/30) and again best optical equipment with nigh capacity
Our tanks suffer some local updates, called M47E1 and E2 (first they were upadted to the M47E type changing the engine to the M48 diesel type and the engine area encasement, and deletion of one of the wheels)
E1, basicaly, added german style smoke dischargers, deletion of hull machine gun, subtitution of the coax Browning for an MG3, and best optical equipment
The E2 update also included a 105 mm gun (RH105/30) and again best optical equipment with nigh capacity
mkp
Hessen, Germany
Joined: November 10, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 02:22 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Actually the driver was always located on the left side (looking from the rear) with the gunner on the right. That is also the configuration used by say the Panther and makes the most sense in such a configuration (seating the driver the same side as in a truck/car)
Rather early (no national markings) BW training film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1_A6u3tKl4
Germany defenetly did some modifications: rain gutters at the turret, smoke dischargers, additional lights, painting in RAL 6014 and moving the driver from the left side of the hull to the right side (driver had to operate the hull-MG). The free space of the left hull side was filled with 35 extra rounds for the main gun.
The last German M47 were phased out in 1968. Most of them were sold to other NATO countries, e.g. Italy or Greece.
vettejack
Florida, United States
Joined: November 23, 2012
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 07:41 PM UTC
Other users of the M47 as I have posted before:
CURRENT OPERATORS
Spain – 22 M47ER3 ARV based on M47 hulls modernized in 1992. Currently used as recovery vehicles in artillery and infantry units.
Iran - unknown quantity
FORMER OPERATORS
Austria - 153 M47s in active service from 1957 till 1982. Since 1972, turrets of retired M47 tanks were fixed in Austrian bunker systems.
Belgium – One of the surviving examples is visible in the Brussels Military Museum
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatia – Over 20 during the Croatian War of Independence, 16 units remained in service by 1996 but were soon retired.
Cyprus – One captured vehicle.
France – 856 (1954–1970)
Greece – 396 pieces in total, of which 391 were scrapped between 1992 and 1995.
Iraq – Captured from Iran. All destroyed or scrapped.
Italy
Jordan
Republic of Korea – Acquired a total of 531 vehicles — 463 for the army between 1956 and 1959, and 68 for the marine corps between 1963 and 1964, mainly from the USFK. Around three-quarters of the M47s replaced their 90mm M36 guns with the 90mm M41 guns that became available when their M48s upgraded their guns from 90mm M41 to 105mm M68. The last vehicle was out of service in 2007.
Netherlands
Pakistan – 25, retired in 2002–2003
Portugal
Saudi Arabia
Somalia
West Germany - 1,102 tanks were fielded.
Turkey – 1,347 tanks were fielded. Today all M47s were recycled and the steel used for civil purposes, except one tank that was delivered to the Istanbul Military Museum and one tank as war memorial.
United States
Yugoslavia – Total of 319 delivered during the 1950s
CURRENT OPERATORS
Spain – 22 M47ER3 ARV based on M47 hulls modernized in 1992. Currently used as recovery vehicles in artillery and infantry units.
Iran - unknown quantity
FORMER OPERATORS
Austria - 153 M47s in active service from 1957 till 1982. Since 1972, turrets of retired M47 tanks were fixed in Austrian bunker systems.
Belgium – One of the surviving examples is visible in the Brussels Military Museum
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatia – Over 20 during the Croatian War of Independence, 16 units remained in service by 1996 but were soon retired.
Cyprus – One captured vehicle.
France – 856 (1954–1970)
Greece – 396 pieces in total, of which 391 were scrapped between 1992 and 1995.
Iraq – Captured from Iran. All destroyed or scrapped.
Italy
Jordan
Republic of Korea – Acquired a total of 531 vehicles — 463 for the army between 1956 and 1959, and 68 for the marine corps between 1963 and 1964, mainly from the USFK. Around three-quarters of the M47s replaced their 90mm M36 guns with the 90mm M41 guns that became available when their M48s upgraded their guns from 90mm M41 to 105mm M68. The last vehicle was out of service in 2007.
Netherlands
Pakistan – 25, retired in 2002–2003
Portugal
Saudi Arabia
Somalia
West Germany - 1,102 tanks were fielded.
Turkey – 1,347 tanks were fielded. Today all M47s were recycled and the steel used for civil purposes, except one tank that was delivered to the Istanbul Military Museum and one tank as war memorial.
United States
Yugoslavia – Total of 319 delivered during the 1950s