Anyone used any easy to find alternatives to blacken tracks now that blacken-it isn't being produced? I'm trying to finish a project over the weekend and can't get the AK or MIG versions in until Monday. I'm hoping there's something comparable I can find locally and in stock.
Thanks!
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Track blackening
communityguy
#280
Joined: May 14, 2012
KitMaker: 493 posts
Armorama: 358 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 02:19 AM UTC
rfbaer
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,696 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 03:55 AM UTC
I've used a muriatic acid solution, convenient since I have a pool and keep the stuff around to do the water chemistry. It's nasty, but a 50/50 solution works in a few minutes, and the chemical reaction is completely stopped by a cold water rinse. Just be sure and wash the tracks in a good soapy warm water bath first.
Halbcl2
Joined: September 10, 2006
KitMaker: 127 posts
Armorama: 106 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 04:26 AM UTC
I use gun bluing, purchased at any sports shop. I clean the tracks with lacquer thinner (over kill?) then brush them with a soft brass brush. Then I apply the bluing. I repeat the brass buffing and bluing as needed.
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 05:43 AM UTC
What about normal painting and weathering with paint,washes and pigments,that could be done effectivly also if the fancy stuff isn't available.
edmund
Joined: November 10, 2014
KitMaker: 668 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 07:26 AM UTC
I believe AK makes something similar to blacken it . No it's not AK its ammo by MIG , track burnishing fluid . What about Ushi ?
mogdude
Joined: June 18, 2012
KitMaker: 459 posts
Armorama: 195 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 04:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I've used a muriatic acid solution, convenient since I have a pool and keep the stuff around to do the water chemistry. It's nasty, but a 50/50 solution works in a few minutes, and the chemical reaction is completely stopped by a cold water rinse. Just be sure and wash the tracks in a good soapy warm water bath first.
50/50 with what ? water ? I want to try this
thanks
sdk10159
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 556 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 05:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Anyone used any easy to find alternatives to blacken tracks now that blacken-it isn't being produced? I'm trying to finish a project over the weekend and can't get the AK or MIG versions in until Monday. I'm hoping there's something comparable I can find locally and in stock.
Thanks!
I've also been looking for something similar to Blackenit. I found a product on a model railroad site that claims pewter black works just as well.
http://www.jaxchemicals.com/jaxshop/shopexd.asp?id=61
I haven't tried it yet.
vettejack
Joined: November 23, 2012
KitMaker: 1,277 posts
Armorama: 1,254 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 06:05 PM UTC
I have a couple of bottles of 'Blacken-It...from:
A-West
Box 1144
Woodstock, Ga 30188
If Blacken-It truly has been taken off the market, the reason(s) could be the 3 following (MSDS) ingredients of Blacken-It:
1. Selenious acid (H2SeO3) is the chemical darkening and patination of copper, brass and bronze, producing a rich dark brown color that can be further enhanced with mechanical abrasion. Health effects: Like many selenium compounds, selenous acid is highly toxic, and ingestion of any significant quantity of selenous acid is usually fatal. Symptoms of selenium poisoning can occur several hours after exposure, and may include stupor, nausea, severe hypotension and death.
2. Copper Carbonate, artificial malachite. Cu2(OH)2CO3, toxic, green powder which is soluble in acids and decomposes at 200 C; used in pigments and pyrotechnics and as a fungicide and feed additive; antidote for phosphorous poisoning.
3. Cupric Chloride (copper chloride) CuCl2, yellowish to brown, deliquescent powder which is soluble in water, alcohol, and ammonium chloride; used as a mordant in dyeing and printing textile fabrics and in the refining of copper, gold, and silver.
I wear gloves anyway without even knowing what was in the solution...nevertheless, I can see why it would/could be taken off the market.
A-West
Box 1144
Woodstock, Ga 30188
If Blacken-It truly has been taken off the market, the reason(s) could be the 3 following (MSDS) ingredients of Blacken-It:
1. Selenious acid (H2SeO3) is the chemical darkening and patination of copper, brass and bronze, producing a rich dark brown color that can be further enhanced with mechanical abrasion. Health effects: Like many selenium compounds, selenous acid is highly toxic, and ingestion of any significant quantity of selenous acid is usually fatal. Symptoms of selenium poisoning can occur several hours after exposure, and may include stupor, nausea, severe hypotension and death.
2. Copper Carbonate, artificial malachite. Cu2(OH)2CO3, toxic, green powder which is soluble in acids and decomposes at 200 C; used in pigments and pyrotechnics and as a fungicide and feed additive; antidote for phosphorous poisoning.
3. Cupric Chloride (copper chloride) CuCl2, yellowish to brown, deliquescent powder which is soluble in water, alcohol, and ammonium chloride; used as a mordant in dyeing and printing textile fabrics and in the refining of copper, gold, and silver.
I wear gloves anyway without even knowing what was in the solution...nevertheless, I can see why it would/could be taken off the market.
Belt_Fed
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 07:10 PM UTC
You can play chemist mixing your own chemicals, but the result can be toxic and at worst, fatal. I would highly recommend that you let the professionals mix the chems for you.
AK interactive used to sell track blackening fluid which was re-branded Uschi stuff. I am not sure if they still do it anymore since the split with Ammo. I assume Ammo has their own brand now. I would wait a few days to purchase these.
The other alternative is to use good ole' paint.
AK interactive used to sell track blackening fluid which was re-branded Uschi stuff. I am not sure if they still do it anymore since the split with Ammo. I assume Ammo has their own brand now. I would wait a few days to purchase these.
The other alternative is to use good ole' paint.
PvtMutt
Joined: July 01, 2006
KitMaker: 614 posts
Armorama: 601 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 09:57 PM UTC
I've used this several times and works on tracks just great.
Used for stained glass lead blacking and hobby crafts.
A lot cheaper and more for the money.
Tony lee
Used for stained glass lead blacking and hobby crafts.
A lot cheaper and more for the money.
Tony lee
rfbaer
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,696 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 10:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI've used a muriatic acid solution, convenient since I have a pool and keep the stuff around to do the water chemistry. It's nasty, but a 50/50 solution works in a few minutes, and the chemical reaction is completely stopped by a cold water rinse. Just be sure and wash the tracks in a good soapy warm water bath first.
50/50 with what ? water ? I want to try this
thanks
Yep, mix with water. Use a small batch first, check results and then go for it. I wear a mask, gloves and goggles, it's potent stuff, even in solution.
I've gotten really good results this way, nice even black/brown color, no orange, no corrosion that I used to get with "Blacken-it", and as I mentioned, after a rinse in water, the chemical reaction completely stops, so no more of the pins dissolving three months after I mount the tracks on the model.
That being said, I just paint now, I've got a pool service company doing something for a lot less money than I was spending, so I used the last of my acid last summer, and my pool no longer attracts ducks.
gastec
Joined: February 03, 2014
KitMaker: 1,042 posts
Armorama: 871 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 04, 2015 - 09:41 AM UTC
White vinegar and bleach mixed 50:50. Use plain bleach - not the ones with additives to make them smell nice. Place tracks in the solution and agitate from time to time. Will give you a nice rusted effect...
You can make the links up first and soak the completed tracks but DO NOT do this with the older sets with the metal wire supplied for the pins. The chemical reaction degrades this wire and it will fall apart. Absolutely fine with the newer brass wire supplied sets.
CAUTION Gives off chlorine fumes so best done outdoors or in a well ventilated area for obvious reasons.
In addition, I did discover something purely by accident. A while back, I treated a set of Friuls but never made them up. I came to use them the other day but wanted them to be blackened rather than 'rusted'. I thought I'd try a product called CLR on a couple of links.
It simply turned the links a very dark colour (Bit like NATO Black) after a quick scrub with an old tooth brush. Perfect. I'll certainly be using this process more in the future!
HTH
Gary
You can make the links up first and soak the completed tracks but DO NOT do this with the older sets with the metal wire supplied for the pins. The chemical reaction degrades this wire and it will fall apart. Absolutely fine with the newer brass wire supplied sets.
CAUTION Gives off chlorine fumes so best done outdoors or in a well ventilated area for obvious reasons.
In addition, I did discover something purely by accident. A while back, I treated a set of Friuls but never made them up. I came to use them the other day but wanted them to be blackened rather than 'rusted'. I thought I'd try a product called CLR on a couple of links.
It simply turned the links a very dark colour (Bit like NATO Black) after a quick scrub with an old tooth brush. Perfect. I'll certainly be using this process more in the future!
HTH
Gary
Namabiiru
Associate Editor#399
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,888 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 04, 2015 - 11:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I've used this several times and works on tracks just great.
Used for stained glass lead blacking and hobby crafts.
A lot cheaper and more for the money.
Tony lee
I do stained glass and have used black patina for tracks as well, although I find that some brands of patina don't work very well to anything. I have also discovered that Friul metal is not consistent: I did a set of tracks awhile ago and all the links on one side came out nicely black, and all the links on the other side came out a sort of reddish color. Weird.
fireontheway
Joined: May 17, 2006
KitMaker: 370 posts
Armorama: 368 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 04, 2015 - 05:07 PM UTC
Mark do you mean like this?
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C_JACQUEMONT
Joined: October 09, 2004
KitMaker: 2,433 posts
Armorama: 2,325 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 04, 2015 - 07:33 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I've used this several times and works on tracks just great.
Used for stained glass lead blacking and hobby crafts.
A lot cheaper and more for the money.
Tony lee
Thanks for the tip Tony. I'll have to buy and try that one.
Cheers,
Christophe
Namabiiru
Associate Editor#399
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,888 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 05, 2015 - 04:32 AM UTC
Timothy,
Yes, exactly like that.
Yes, exactly like that.
cabasner
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 1,083 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 05, 2015 - 07:52 AM UTC
I still have some new Blacken-It left over from the first and only time I used it. Just like some of you have written, one side of the tracks came out a nice, even brownish black, the other side came out quite different. What I have learned from this is that you should put both sides of your tracks in the same batch when you use this stuff. But even a more significant point is that I would recommend just using the paint route, as previously recommended. You can still get the advantage of the real metal by sanding off the high points (such as the cleats on the bottom of the Tiger I middle and late tracks) where wear would tend to expose fresh metal. In fact, the 'bad' track that I got from my use of Blacken-It I painted, using a color similar to what I got on the other (good) track. You still have the weight and sag, which are the best characteristics (in my opinion) of these tracks anyway.
Namabiiru
Associate Editor#399
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,888 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 05, 2015 - 08:01 AM UTC
I think that's right, Curt. With the chemical blackening it seems to come down to links being manufactured with slightly different alloys, and there is nothing at all we can do about that. Although painting isn't quite as simple as a soak in a chemical blackener it does seem to be the only option to guarantee a consistent finish.
communityguy
#280
Joined: May 14, 2012
KitMaker: 493 posts
Armorama: 358 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 - 08:22 PM UTC
All:
After quite a bit of trial and error, I've finished my first *good* set of blackened tracks. I wrote up a lengthy how-to based on my experience. Thought y'all (and future searchers) might be interested:
http://build.theworldwithme.com/how-to-afv-metal-tracks/
After quite a bit of trial and error, I've finished my first *good* set of blackened tracks. I wrote up a lengthy how-to based on my experience. Thought y'all (and future searchers) might be interested:
http://build.theworldwithme.com/how-to-afv-metal-tracks/
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 - 08:40 PM UTC
Black-n-it solution becomes exhausted after a few uses (and will probably happen with other similar solutions), so best to soak all the tracks at the same time. In the above where one set of tracks is darker than the other is the result of solution exhaustion. After a while, it no longer has any effect at all. And remember to agitate the tracks during soaking to dislodge any air bubbles - these will prevent exposure to the solution and leave clean voids. 
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Armorama: 8,109 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 - 08:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Black-n-it solution becomes exhausted after a few uses
You mean after one use. I never re-use, but always throw away.
Gun bluing solution is a better alternative for the price.
11Bravo_C2
Joined: May 12, 2015
KitMaker: 475 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Friday, June 12, 2015 - 12:19 AM UTC
Sorry for reviving a not so old thread.
Could this product be used to burnish metal tracks?
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-metal-blackening-solution-1-pt.html
Well it says "will not work on brass, copper or aluminium". Now sure what "White Metal" is a mixture of.
Could this product be used to burnish metal tracks?
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-metal-blackening-solution-1-pt.html
Well it says "will not work on brass, copper or aluminium". Now sure what "White Metal" is a mixture of.
11Bravo_C2
Joined: May 12, 2015
KitMaker: 475 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 03:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
In addition, I did discover something purely by accident. A while back, I treated a set of Friuls but never made them up. I came to use them the other day but wanted them to be blackened rather than 'rusted'. I thought I'd try a product called CLR on a couple of links.
It simply turned the links a very dark colour (Bit like NATO Black) after a quick scrub with an old tooth brush. Perfect. I'll certainly be using this process more in the future!
HTH
Gary
Gary,
How long did CLR take to turn the tracks dark? Ive had one link in CLR for the past hour and have not noticed any change.
ARENGCA
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 07:52 AM UTC
I've been using gun bluing (Perma Blue Liquid Gun Blue, from Birchwood Casey) for my last three sets of Fruils, and it works quite well. I ordered a quart bottle on Amazon, and I expect to get at least eight sets of tracks out of it.
I clean the track by soaking it in TSP and water for at least an hour before (longer is better), then rinse thoroughly and let them dry. Then about 2-3 ounces of the gun bluing in a small glass jar (I use the smallest size of Mason canning jars, about 4 ounces total), left overnight to soak. The reaction creates a lot of tan-colored sludge, so I agitate the jar by shaking it up a couple of times during the process.
The overnight soak seems to neutralize the solution, but I take precautions not to get it on my hands before or after. A thorough rinse, a quick brushing with an old toothbrush to remove the excess black stuff, and air dry, and I get much better results than Blacken-It. A light sanding will easily shine up wear areas, and the finish takes washes quite well.
Waffle style tracks, like the T-34, are still very difficult to blacken well, just as for Blacken-It, because the small "holes" hold onto air bubbles that prevent the solution from getting in. A thorough wash in strong detergent seemed to help somewhat. My results were better, but still not complete coverage. However, under a rust wash and some sanding of wear areas, it looks darn good. The other types of track I did worked very well, roughly 95% well-blackened coverage.
I clean the track by soaking it in TSP and water for at least an hour before (longer is better), then rinse thoroughly and let them dry. Then about 2-3 ounces of the gun bluing in a small glass jar (I use the smallest size of Mason canning jars, about 4 ounces total), left overnight to soak. The reaction creates a lot of tan-colored sludge, so I agitate the jar by shaking it up a couple of times during the process.
The overnight soak seems to neutralize the solution, but I take precautions not to get it on my hands before or after. A thorough rinse, a quick brushing with an old toothbrush to remove the excess black stuff, and air dry, and I get much better results than Blacken-It. A light sanding will easily shine up wear areas, and the finish takes washes quite well.
Waffle style tracks, like the T-34, are still very difficult to blacken well, just as for Blacken-It, because the small "holes" hold onto air bubbles that prevent the solution from getting in. A thorough wash in strong detergent seemed to help somewhat. My results were better, but still not complete coverage. However, under a rust wash and some sanding of wear areas, it looks darn good. The other types of track I did worked very well, roughly 95% well-blackened coverage.
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