Hey everyone,
I was wondering if you all could give me some insight on sealing before an oil wash or not. I use Tamiya paint on the model, and usually seal with dullcoat. The oil was then consists of oil paint thinned with Testors paint thinner. How vital is it to seal the model before the wash? I'm not able to use dullcoat anymore so if anyone has any good alternatives also that would be great. Thanks for any help.
-Seth
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Need some insight
Tank_builder
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 11, 2015 - 09:25 PM UTC
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 11, 2015 - 11:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey everyone,
I was wondering if you all could give me some insight on sealing before an oil wash or not. I use Tamiya paint on the model, and usually seal with dullcoat. The oil was then consists of oil paint thinned with Testors paint thinner. How vital is it to seal the model before the wash? I'm not able to use dullcoat anymore so if anyone has any good alternatives also that would be great. Thanks for any help.
-Seth
Hi, Seth! GRUMBACHER makes some nice "MATTE VARNISH" that is supposed to be used on "Oil Paintings". I don't know if your problem with TESTORS DULL-COTE is a physical one, so I'm NOT 100% sure if it would be safe for you to use the GRUMBACHER MATTE VARNISH... The best thing would be for you to either "Google" it, or email GRUMBACHER for the MSDS specs...
I seal my models several times before they are actually completed. I don't apply any overall washes, except in extreme cases, and that is very seldom. I very much prefer to use my airbrushes and weathering powders to create the "special effects" that I need on my models. In any case, you should seal your model BEFORE your wash, ESPECIALLY if your wash is petroleum-based, as you've been using. Once you're done with all your washes, seal AGAIN...
There are OTHER products out there that are composed of acrylics that you can use for your washes INSTEAD of petroleum-based products...
Best of Luck!
Tank_builder
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 11, 2015 - 11:20 PM UTC
Awesome, I'll look into that. Thanks a lot.
-Seth
-Seth
russamotto
Joined: December 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,389 posts
Armorama: 2,054 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 03:48 AM UTC
I usually apply the oil wash straight to the Tamiya acrylic paint. I have tested several thinners and my preferred choice is Rembrandt paint thinner, which seems pretty mild. I use either Academy or Grumbacher oils. I also apply oil dots right to the Tamiya paint. For me they seem to blend a little better over the flat paint surface than they do with a gloss. I do gloss under decals, though, and then flat coat over that.
Tank_builder
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 04:56 AM UTC
What I'm mostly worried about are the decals. I use Walthers Solvaset, but I don't know if that seals them also.
-Seth
-Seth
russamotto
Joined: December 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,389 posts
Armorama: 2,054 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 05:16 AM UTC
No. You need a gloss coat to seal them properly. I have learned the hard way when a decal was accidentally destroyed by thinner. The gloss coat under the decal also helps prevent the setting solution from discoloring the paint and leaving a tide mark around the decal.
SSGToms
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 05:33 AM UTC
Seth,
You need an acrylic gloss coat under and over the decals to seal them in. Then you can do the oils on the gloss acrylic clear, or a flat acrylic clear, without staining the paint or melting the decals. Gloss or flat is whichever works best for you. I've switched to oils on a flat coat.
You need an acrylic gloss coat under and over the decals to seal them in. Then you can do the oils on the gloss acrylic clear, or a flat acrylic clear, without staining the paint or melting the decals. Gloss or flat is whichever works best for you. I've switched to oils on a flat coat.
Tank_builder
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 05:51 AM UTC
Thanks guys for the help, greatly appreciate it. I'll go pick some up next time I get the chance. Can I brush it on or is it better to spray it on?
-Seth
-Seth
SSGToms
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 08:53 AM UTC
Airbrushing it on always gives you a thinner, more even coat.
Arizonakid
Joined: October 03, 2012
KitMaker: 89 posts
Armorama: 55 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 11:53 AM UTC
Hi Seth:
I'm surprised it hasn't been said yet, but a very easy solution is available at just about any medium to large grocery store. It is Johnson's (or any other manufacturer) acrylic liquid floor wax. It's cheap, and one bottle is just about a lifetime supply. You can put it straight through your airbrush without any problems. Put one layer on before you decal, then one layer on after the decals are set and dry. You should be able to do any kind of weathering you want after that.
And if using the testors paint thinner works for you, that is alright. But I would suggest that you get a bottle of the blue label turpenoid for thinning your oil paints to a wash. This product is specifically designed to be used with oil paints, and again one bottle is a long time supply.
HTH
Gary
I'm surprised it hasn't been said yet, but a very easy solution is available at just about any medium to large grocery store. It is Johnson's (or any other manufacturer) acrylic liquid floor wax. It's cheap, and one bottle is just about a lifetime supply. You can put it straight through your airbrush without any problems. Put one layer on before you decal, then one layer on after the decals are set and dry. You should be able to do any kind of weathering you want after that.
And if using the testors paint thinner works for you, that is alright. But I would suggest that you get a bottle of the blue label turpenoid for thinning your oil paints to a wash. This product is specifically designed to be used with oil paints, and again one bottle is a long time supply.
HTH
Gary
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 05:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Seth:
I'm surprised it hasn't been said yet, but a very easy solution is available at just about any medium to large grocery store. It is Johnson's (or any other manufacturer) acrylic liquid floor wax. It's cheap, and one bottle is just about a lifetime supply. You can put it straight through your airbrush without any problems. Put one layer on before you decal, then one layer on after the decals are set and dry. You should be able to do any kind of weathering you want after that.
And if using the testors paint thinner works for you, that is alright. But I would suggest that you get a bottle of the blue label turpenoid for thinning your oil paints to a wash. This product is specifically designed to be used with oil paints, and again one bottle is a long time supply.
HTH
Gary
Hi, Gary! I'm starting to hear quite a bit of negativity as regards to using JOHNSON's FUTURE/PLEDGE as a sealer; some modellers have had some pretty disastrous experiences with it. I haven't... Yet. But I guess that there's A FIRST TIME FOR EVERYTHING... I like to use TAMIYA's GLOSS CLEAR prior to applying decals, but mostly I like to use ARCHER's DRY TRANSFERS, instead. Also, I think that WALTHERS SOLVASET is a bit too aggressive. I like using MICROSCALE's products, better...
Once my decals and/or dry transfers have been applied, I like to use TESTORS Lusterless Flat #1960 as my final coat/sealer, if I'm doing a vehicle or a figure. I like TAMIYA's Spray GLOSS and Spray SEMI MATTE for subjects that require those types of finishes...
Molentik
Joined: May 22, 2012
KitMaker: 112 posts
Armorama: 97 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 06:37 PM UTC
Another idea is to use the Windsor & Newton water based oil paints so you can just use water instead of thinner. The paint itself acts just like regular oilpaint.
Tank_builder
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 - 08:13 PM UTC
I was going to go the future route, but heard the negativity about it.
I'm really tempted to try the Windsor and Newton acrylics, do you use them Robbert?
-Seth
I'm really tempted to try the Windsor and Newton acrylics, do you use them Robbert?
-Seth
SSGToms
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Posted: Monday, April 13, 2015 - 02:49 AM UTC
Seth,
If you want to avoid Future (now Johnson's whatever with Future shine, which I've used for decades with success) every acrylic paint line has their own clear gloss and clear flat. Pick your favorite, but Ammo of Mig just came out with an excellent product I tried recently.
Do not use W&N acrylics, they are not the same as "water based oils". For weathering you need to change mediums, that is to say go to oils or enamels, so the weathering doesn't eat into the paint, decals, and clear coats.
If you want to avoid Future (now Johnson's whatever with Future shine, which I've used for decades with success) every acrylic paint line has their own clear gloss and clear flat. Pick your favorite, but Ammo of Mig just came out with an excellent product I tried recently.
Do not use W&N acrylics, they are not the same as "water based oils". For weathering you need to change mediums, that is to say go to oils or enamels, so the weathering doesn't eat into the paint, decals, and clear coats.
Tank_builder
Joined: January 06, 2012
KitMaker: 394 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Monday, April 13, 2015 - 03:29 AM UTC
Thanks for clearing that up. I'll see what I can find over the weekend.
-Seth
-Seth
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