I ask...
Was German armour camouflage finished in the field in a similar way to aircraft of the Luftwaffe?
Please help.
Many thanks
Peter
Hosted by Darren Baker
Help with camouflage please
flitzer
Joined: November 13, 2003
KitMaker: 2,240 posts
Armorama: 808 posts
Posted: Friday, January 16, 2004 - 05:54 PM UTC
Greetings to all.
I ask...
Was German armour camouflage finished in the field in a similar way to aircraft of the Luftwaffe?
Please help.
Many thanks
Peter
I ask...
Was German armour camouflage finished in the field in a similar way to aircraft of the Luftwaffe?
Please help.
Many thanks
Peter
capnjock
Joined: May 19, 2003
KitMaker: 860 posts
Armorama: 411 posts
Posted: Friday, January 16, 2004 - 06:46 PM UTC
There is a series of books called 'Panzer Colors' that does a good job of exploring German camo during WWII for us all that are not well-versed on the subject. I think they are available from Squadron.
capnjock
capnjock
flitzer
Joined: November 13, 2003
KitMaker: 2,240 posts
Armorama: 808 posts
Posted: Friday, January 16, 2004 - 09:44 PM UTC
Thanks capnjock.
I've ordered the set of 3 from Squadron.
If anyone else is interested each of 3 issues are USD13.47.
The set of all 3 Ref: SS9902 can be had for USD35.99.
A bit of a saving.
Thanks again.
Cheers
"jock"....a bit of Scots heritage?
Peter
I've ordered the set of 3 from Squadron.
If anyone else is interested each of 3 issues are USD13.47.
The set of all 3 Ref: SS9902 can be had for USD35.99.
A bit of a saving.
Thanks again.
Cheers
"jock"....a bit of Scots heritage?
Peter
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 04:25 PM UTC
I believe most Luftwaffe fighters as well as bombers had a hard-edged 'splinter' type camoflage pattern, although I think I remenber seeing some pics of Me-109's with large spots. Aircraft are ground camoflaged so that they are invisible to enemy aircraft when they are parked. Therefore the colours can be in a very broad pattern. Armour, on the other hand, are usually seen from much closer ranges and need more elaborate paint jobs to remain 'invisible', ie; 3-color camoflage, and 'ambush' camoflage.
flitzer
Joined: November 13, 2003
KitMaker: 2,240 posts
Armorama: 808 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 06:34 PM UTC
Thanks Biggles2.
An elaborate scheme it is.
Cheers
Peter 
An elaborate scheme it is.
Cheers
Peter
mikeli125
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,595 posts
Armorama: 1,209 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 10:36 PM UTC
flitzer,
the paint came in tubs of paste which could be mixed with water fuel ect whatever was at handeven painted on with brushes mops ect some tanks had airtanks to use compessors to do the painting I'd suspect that most field applied cammo was soft edge
and could vary in thinkness due to mixing ect just think what it's like with your own A/B
oh and welcome to the light sdie BTW
the paint came in tubs of paste which could be mixed with water fuel ect whatever was at handeven painted on with brushes mops ect some tanks had airtanks to use compessors to do the painting I'd suspect that most field applied cammo was soft edge
and could vary in thinkness due to mixing ect just think what it's like with your own A/B
oh and welcome to the light sdie BTW
flitzer
Joined: November 13, 2003
KitMaker: 2,240 posts
Armorama: 808 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 10:51 PM UTC
Thanks mikeli125,
it's a similar situation to how final camo was applied to aircraft...i.e. in the field.
And the same paint and thinners supply problems apply also.
Now I know...thanks again.
Bye the way...what part of NW are you from? I'm a North Westerner too...a pie eater from Wigan.
Cheers
Peter
it's a similar situation to how final camo was applied to aircraft...i.e. in the field.
And the same paint and thinners supply problems apply also.
Now I know...thanks again.
Bye the way...what part of NW are you from? I'm a North Westerner too...a pie eater from Wigan.
Cheers
Peter
cromwell
Joined: August 29, 2002
KitMaker: 202 posts
Armorama: 178 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 11:28 PM UTC
Mike 125,
According to my info you are correct.
Most German WWII tanks had air compressors and a spray gun kit. There were no Hard or fast rules to adhere to, that is why there are so many different patterns.
A lot of the time it was left to the best 'artist' in the crew.
As long as the base coat is the sandy colour and the other colours are green (shades from Dark Olive to a light leafy green) and brown (shades from almost chocolate to rusty red) you cannot go wrong with how the vehicle looked.
I have some pix with vehilces that were painted in panzer grey which appear to have other colours added to them.
Can anyone else add to this??
According to my info you are correct.
Most German WWII tanks had air compressors and a spray gun kit. There were no Hard or fast rules to adhere to, that is why there are so many different patterns.
A lot of the time it was left to the best 'artist' in the crew.
As long as the base coat is the sandy colour and the other colours are green (shades from Dark Olive to a light leafy green) and brown (shades from almost chocolate to rusty red) you cannot go wrong with how the vehicle looked.
I have some pix with vehilces that were painted in panzer grey which appear to have other colours added to them.
Can anyone else add to this??
DutchBird
#068
Joined: April 09, 2003
KitMaker: 1,144 posts
Armorama: 526 posts
Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 - 01:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Mike 125,
According to my info you are correct.
Most German WWII tanks had air compressors and a spray gun kit. There were no Hard or fast rules to adhere to, that is why there are so many different patterns.
A lot of the time it was left to the best 'artist' in the crew.
As long as the base coat is the sandy colour and the other colours are green (shades from Dark Olive to a light leafy green) and brown (shades from almost chocolate to rusty red) you cannot go wrong with how the vehicle looked.
I have some pix with vehilces that were painted in panzer grey which appear to have other colours added to them.
Can anyone else add to this??
Hi Cromwell,
now as far as I know:
There were vehicles painted in Panzer-Grau that had mud smeared over them, especially in Russia and North Africa, in order to improve camouflage. My guess is that some shades similar to Panzer-gelb were also used, as Dragon has this as one of the paint-schemes for their Sd.Kfz. 250/1 Alte. The Tamiya Wespe has a paintscheme of Panzer-Grau with Dark Green.
Late in the war, the camouflage base color was changed to hullred (the primer), and in the end vehicles with a base color of dark green appeared.
site in German
This site has all kinds of painstschemes, from WW II to modern. It is in German though... Wehrmacht paintschemes are on the bottom. In at least the Wehrmacht section thegroundrules are explained (which colors were used, etc), and one can take it from there...
Quoted Text
quote taken from the site linked to above.
Dunkelgrau RAL 7021 ersetzte das frühere zweifarbige Tarnschema, um Farbe einzusparen und wurde im Jahre 1943 durch dunkelgelb abgelöst. Fahrzeuge im Einsatz mussten nicht umlackiert werden, sondern sollten mittels Tarnpaste ihre Zwei- und Dreifarbtarnschemen erhalten. Es gibt Aufnahmen von Kampfpanzern in der Schlacht von Kursk 1943, die dunkelgelb auf dunkelgrau im Verhältnis 2:1 getarnt sind.
flitzer
Joined: November 13, 2003
KitMaker: 2,240 posts
Armorama: 808 posts
Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 - 02:53 AM UTC
Thanks to you all,
it seems as long as I use the palette of normal armour colours, there's a lot of freedom with the actual scheme?
Thanks again my "trackie" friends.
Cheers
Peter
it seems as long as I use the palette of normal armour colours, there's a lot of freedom with the actual scheme?
Thanks again my "trackie" friends.
Cheers
Peter
Cactus911
Joined: October 14, 2002
KitMaker: 119 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 - 03:15 AM UTC
One of my favorite twists on this discussion is from the reference material at Achtung Panzer's page talking about camouflage schemes. At the end of the war the OKH issued an edict that Panzer Grey would be the base color again with spots of brown/red and green. I really like the way that late armor looks in a base coat of Panzer grey with spots of Panzer chocolate brown (Testors MM Acryl colors). As to the accuracy of such a scheme, I generally think about placing those units in a "what-if" situation. For example, I painted a Ostwind this way; I'm on better ground with that unit than some since it has limited reference material and was a late-war addition to the inventory.
It is fun to do up the camouflage schemes. If you aren't worried about making an exact reproduction of a vehicle, you can have some fun with your imagination!
Stephen
It is fun to do up the camouflage schemes. If you aren't worried about making an exact reproduction of a vehicle, you can have some fun with your imagination!
Stephen
flitzer
Joined: November 13, 2003
KitMaker: 2,240 posts
Armorama: 808 posts
Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 - 03:22 AM UTC
Thanks cactus. That's one of the reasons I like Luft 46 subjects so much...a lot of freedom with camo.
But to cloud the issue further ...
did German armour ever have “wellenmuster” (wave) camouflage as seen on some luftwaffe aircraft? I seem to remember seeing a 75mm assault gun done this way, but can’t be sure.
German aircraft were painted in a huge variety of schemes other than the usual splinter patterns; splotches, crazy-paving, worms to name a few.
Did armour have the same style of schemes, in armour colours of course?
i.e. was there cross-pollenisation of schemes?
Cheers
Peter
But to cloud the issue further ...
did German armour ever have “wellenmuster” (wave) camouflage as seen on some luftwaffe aircraft? I seem to remember seeing a 75mm assault gun done this way, but can’t be sure.
German aircraft were painted in a huge variety of schemes other than the usual splinter patterns; splotches, crazy-paving, worms to name a few.
Did armour have the same style of schemes, in armour colours of course?
i.e. was there cross-pollenisation of schemes?
Cheers
Peter
mikeli125
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,595 posts
Armorama: 1,209 posts
Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 - 05:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks mikeli125,
it's a similar situation to how final camo was applied to aircraft...i.e. in the field.
And the same paint and thinners supply problems apply also.
Now I know...thanks again.
Bye the way...what part of NW are you from? I'm a North Westerner too...a pie eater from Wigan.
Cheers
Peter
I stay in Preston (Bamber Bridge) just off the motorway at juct 29 usually shop at transport models which is way better than the model shop in wigan town center which I tohught was a bit poor there is quite a few of us from the Nth west here as well
flitzer
Joined: November 13, 2003
KitMaker: 2,240 posts
Armorama: 808 posts
Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 - 06:05 PM UTC
Hi mikeli125,
its a small world. I used to work in Bamber Bridge in the late 80's.
Yes the model shop in Wigan is not great...but better than nothing.
Must check out Transport Models when I'm home late June...a re-fill of decent beer and...you guessed...pies.
Thanks for your message.
Ta Ta for now
Peter
its a small world. I used to work in Bamber Bridge in the late 80's.
Yes the model shop in Wigan is not great...but better than nothing.
Must check out Transport Models when I'm home late June...a re-fill of decent beer and...you guessed...pies.
Thanks for your message.
Ta Ta for now
Peter
Cactus911
Joined: October 14, 2002
KitMaker: 119 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 02:38 PM UTC
I've basically seen just about anything you can imagine on the German equipment, including the aforementioned squiggles, waves, things that were intended to look like trees, curly splotches, big X's, you name it.
I try to put myself in the frame of mind of someone who is trying to conceal their equipment, particularly from above. If it was an urban unit, painting it in shades of gray might make sense given the color photos I've seen of Berlin, etc. in 1945 with grey rubble everywhere. If in the forest, the ambush pattern was supposed to replicate the dappling of sunlight, etc. With the confusion of the end of the war and the basically unlimited discretion of the unit commander, you can come up with all kinds of interesting variations.
I would think pairing a ground vehicle with an aircraft using an unusual wavy scheme or something would make a neat display.
Stephen
I try to put myself in the frame of mind of someone who is trying to conceal their equipment, particularly from above. If it was an urban unit, painting it in shades of gray might make sense given the color photos I've seen of Berlin, etc. in 1945 with grey rubble everywhere. If in the forest, the ambush pattern was supposed to replicate the dappling of sunlight, etc. With the confusion of the end of the war and the basically unlimited discretion of the unit commander, you can come up with all kinds of interesting variations.
I would think pairing a ground vehicle with an aircraft using an unusual wavy scheme or something would make a neat display.
Stephen
flitzer
Joined: November 13, 2003
KitMaker: 2,240 posts
Armorama: 808 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 06:21 PM UTC
Thanks Stephen.
it certainly gets the juices flowing. Doing armour looks like it'll be fun...and a nice change.
Vehicle AND aircraft...sounds like a good topic for group build.
Thanks again
Cheers
Peter
it certainly gets the juices flowing. Doing armour looks like it'll be fun...and a nice change.
Vehicle AND aircraft...sounds like a good topic for group build.
Thanks again
Cheers
Peter
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.