I have some Vallejo washes, but I'm wondering if MIG filters are worthwhile to buy. Couldn't filters be made with acrylics or oils and thinner?
Are the MIG filters acrylic or enamel and thinner based? Any flat coat or surface prepping required?
I've seen some models that use MIG filters and the results are stunning.
Finally, has anyone seen the MIG "Painting Mechas" book? Any comments?
Thanks in advance.
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
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Filters and Washes--Worthwhille to Buy?
Trisaw
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 4,105 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 11:03 PM UTC
easyco69
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
Armorama: 2,233 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 11:24 PM UTC
i like using them. i use both acrylic & enamel. Even though i can make my own...
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 11:48 PM UTC
I think that they are convenient to use.
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2015 - 12:17 AM UTC
I think that's the bottom line: They are a convenience. Of course you can make your own but products like these take most of the time and effort away so you can concentrate on more important matters - like where to use them and how much.
czebas
Joined: October 04, 2012
KitMaker: 5 posts
Armorama: 5 posts
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2015 - 06:39 AM UTC
filter ~ 95% thinner to 5% color.
enamel/oil vs acrylic acrylic has shorter drying time can be hard to remove. Enamel/oil longer drying time (much longer for oil) and can be removed with mineral spirits when used over an acrylic varnish layer.
enamel/oil vs acrylic acrylic has shorter drying time can be hard to remove. Enamel/oil longer drying time (much longer for oil) and can be removed with mineral spirits when used over an acrylic varnish layer.
DocEvan
Joined: August 09, 2014
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 180 posts
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2015 - 06:57 AM UTC
I make my own. They're just thinned paints!
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2015 - 11:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have some Vallejo washes, but I'm wondering if MIG filters are worthwhile to buy. Couldn't filters be made with acrylics or oils and thinner?
Are the MIG filters acrylic or enamel and thinner based? Any flat coat or surface prepping required?
I've seen some models that use MIG filters and the results are stunning.
Finally, has anyone seen the MIG "Painting Mechas" book? Any comments?
Thanks in advance.
I make my own airbrushing-type filters, and I only do one per 1/35 AFV/Armor model, limiting myself to a "dust" coat. I feel that a lot of filters don't improve anything, rather the opposite- They cover up the vehicle's original color to the point of being un-recognizable. I am a proponent of ace-modeller Shep Paine's maxim; "LESS is MORE"...
airborne1
Joined: April 15, 2006
KitMaker: 915 posts
Armorama: 797 posts
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2015 - 04:05 PM UTC
Hi Peter,
The results could be quite exceptional if you use the right method.
The main base is to clear coat your model in gloss or matt varnish There is a large number of filters and washes on the market nowadays.
Ensure your model does not have dust or hair folicles on the model before using because the wash will make the particles stand out on the paint job .
The filters are mainly enamel based.
I agree it does tone the original paint work but it's trying to replicate realism in 35th scale.
Each work in different applications .
One model completed recently showed excellent results .
I did use the AK earth filter thinned with Mig abteilung thinner
a wide brush was used to apply the wash over the Jagdtiger and I was impressed with how it gave a worn realistic appearance .
The wash was slightly diluted with the thinner like 70 % wash to 30 % thinner
Before , painted in lifecolour paints
after with Ak earth , Mig also do a similar filter
Result is this
You can never have enough filters to achieve a good result
Michael
The results could be quite exceptional if you use the right method.
The main base is to clear coat your model in gloss or matt varnish There is a large number of filters and washes on the market nowadays.
Ensure your model does not have dust or hair folicles on the model before using because the wash will make the particles stand out on the paint job .
The filters are mainly enamel based.
I agree it does tone the original paint work but it's trying to replicate realism in 35th scale.
Each work in different applications .
One model completed recently showed excellent results .
I did use the AK earth filter thinned with Mig abteilung thinner
a wide brush was used to apply the wash over the Jagdtiger and I was impressed with how it gave a worn realistic appearance .
The wash was slightly diluted with the thinner like 70 % wash to 30 % thinner
Before , painted in lifecolour paints
after with Ak earth , Mig also do a similar filter
Result is this
You can never have enough filters to achieve a good result
Michael
Unreality
Joined: November 04, 2010
KitMaker: 172 posts
Armorama: 145 posts
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2015 - 06:09 PM UTC
I would say yes, at least to the AK/Ammo filters. The effects are awesome, especially if you, like me, enjoy weathering.
While filters help blend colors, they also help make paint chipping look more realistic by gathering around the edges of painted on "chips". This creates an illusion of depth and really gives the model life.
If you make your own washes/filters via oil paints, you are actually degrading the oil paint binder. With the AK/Ammo stuff, you don't have to worry about that. Plus, they don't smell nearly as bad as other enamels.
You will also find that most of the AK/Ammo stuff is pretty thick out of the bottle, and you will want to thin them down...even the washes can be thinned. This means one bottle can last years. And technically, any of their stuff can be used as a wash or a filter....just depends on how much you thin it.
Cheers!
While filters help blend colors, they also help make paint chipping look more realistic by gathering around the edges of painted on "chips". This creates an illusion of depth and really gives the model life.
If you make your own washes/filters via oil paints, you are actually degrading the oil paint binder. With the AK/Ammo stuff, you don't have to worry about that. Plus, they don't smell nearly as bad as other enamels.
You will also find that most of the AK/Ammo stuff is pretty thick out of the bottle, and you will want to thin them down...even the washes can be thinned. This means one bottle can last years. And technically, any of their stuff can be used as a wash or a filter....just depends on how much you thin it.
Cheers!
Trisaw
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 4,105 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2015 - 10:56 PM UTC
Do the AK and MIG filters attack the basecoat paint? I use acrylic basecoat and I'm concerned that the filters would be too strong and crack and lift the basecoat paint.
Also, do the AK and MIG filters stink? A modeler who used them told me that they have a strong thinner odor that really put him off using them.
I use Vallejo washes and they're nice, but they can't really make the details pop out, even with dryrushing. I'm wondering if filters would enhance details.
Thanks for the replies.
Also, do the AK and MIG filters stink? A modeler who used them told me that they have a strong thinner odor that really put him off using them.
I use Vallejo washes and they're nice, but they can't really make the details pop out, even with dryrushing. I'm wondering if filters would enhance details.
Thanks for the replies.
airborne1
Joined: April 15, 2006
KitMaker: 915 posts
Armorama: 797 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2015 - 04:02 AM UTC
Peter,
The washes and filters will affect (break down or strip) the paint if you do not seal the model.
Give it a couple of hours once you seal the model depending on air temps because you may need more time in cooler climates.
then go back and commence the wash in small stages .
The washes and filters do have an odour but I would say it depends on the wash or filter your using .
I would not say it would smell the room out but if this is an issue use small amounts thinned in a glass jar and recap the bottle.
Use small amounts in sections .Don't rush your work.
Use a 5/0 brush with thinned down wash/filter and apply around the recesses of the raised details and you will see the results .
Build up in applications , start small and work up to how much detail you want.
Start with the purchase of 1 wash and see how you go.
You really don't know until you try it yourself .
Michael
The washes and filters will affect (break down or strip) the paint if you do not seal the model.
Give it a couple of hours once you seal the model depending on air temps because you may need more time in cooler climates.
then go back and commence the wash in small stages .
The washes and filters do have an odour but I would say it depends on the wash or filter your using .
I would not say it would smell the room out but if this is an issue use small amounts thinned in a glass jar and recap the bottle.
Use small amounts in sections .Don't rush your work.
Use a 5/0 brush with thinned down wash/filter and apply around the recesses of the raised details and you will see the results .
Build up in applications , start small and work up to how much detail you want.
Start with the purchase of 1 wash and see how you go.
You really don't know until you try it yourself .
Michael
spoons
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 527 posts
Armorama: 500 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2015 - 04:49 AM UTC
i make my own BUT the ones you buy are better, when you make your own you will just thin the paint out and it will lose its strength not just in color but the way it grabs on to the model.
The manufactured washes have all kinds of great things built in like levelling properties and high amounts of oil to help blend into the surface all designed to dry flat.
Once you try one you wont turn back just remember the difference between a wash and a filter.
The manufactured washes have all kinds of great things built in like levelling properties and high amounts of oil to help blend into the surface all designed to dry flat.
Once you try one you wont turn back just remember the difference between a wash and a filter.
hanb7323
Joined: October 06, 2014
KitMaker: 408 posts
Armorama: 407 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2015 - 07:01 AM UTC
Hmmmm. In my opinion and experience, I would like to recommend you not applying MIG/AKI s to your models directly or solitarily. For example, we can thin them using spirit or enamel thinner and several filters could be used in one model to express contrast or various weathering conditions. Consequently, the degree of variation is infite. I have no intention to teach you but to share information.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2015 - 10:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hmmmm. In my opinion and experience, I would like to recommend you not applying MIG/AKI s to your models directly or solitarily. For example, we can thin them using spirit or enamel thinner and several filters could be used in one model to express contrast or various weathering conditions. Consequently, the degree of variation is infite. I have no intention to teach you but to share information.
I like to vary my post-shading to achieve the effects of age; I don't go too heavily with this because I like to depict my subjects as just a little bit into the "weathering process", i.e, not very far removed from being new.
I like to use my airbrushing and weathering powder skills to this effect... Which is to say, I PREFER my own methods in lieu of using filters. The same goes for overall washes. I only use pin-washes in the various panels, etc, and to depict oil stains, spilled fuels, and the like.
I've developed some serious airbrushing techniques, and I can cut down on a few steps, or eliminate those few steps, entirely... You'd be surprised with what you can achieve by investing some good, professional airbrushing manuals, and by developing coloring and shading techniques with weathering powders. Practice, Experience and Experimentation are KEY...
bigjsd
Joined: May 09, 2014
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Monday, June 29, 2015 - 11:38 PM UTC
I like the Ammo by Mig filters and washes. I did make the mistake of using the wash full strength as an overall wash the first time. Bad idea, rookie mistake. I have now learned to thin both before use. I do use the filter product like an overall wash in very thinned amounts but the wash only for detail/pin washes (also thinned). I do prefer oil paints for dot filtering, although I tried oil paint for washes and I didn't like the drying time. I also didn't achieve optimal results yet that could be more rookie skills. For me part of the enjoyment in the hobby is building my stash of supplies like a fisherman collects tackle.
fificat
Joined: January 10, 2011
KitMaker: 135 posts
Armorama: 109 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 03:00 AM UTC
Wow! Glad I ran into this thread. I have been working on a practice dio with cork cobblestones, and I have just finished the major painting of the cobblestones, with a variety of colors.
I will be doing a bunch of repair work to the cobblestones, and touch-up the painting the best I can. I then plan to spray the street with Tamiya Dullcote clear spray lacquer.
I want to use acrylics thinned down with water to cut down on the raw new look of the cobblestones, painting them over the Dullcote. Problem is, I am not sure how to do this and what colors to use to end up with a street that looks like it has been around a long time.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I use brushes, and have no spray guns, so am limited in that fashion.
Thanks for any help I can get here.
I will be doing a bunch of repair work to the cobblestones, and touch-up the painting the best I can. I then plan to spray the street with Tamiya Dullcote clear spray lacquer.
I want to use acrylics thinned down with water to cut down on the raw new look of the cobblestones, painting them over the Dullcote. Problem is, I am not sure how to do this and what colors to use to end up with a street that looks like it has been around a long time.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I use brushes, and have no spray guns, so am limited in that fashion.
Thanks for any help I can get here.
bigjsd
Joined: May 09, 2014
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 10:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Wow! Glad I ran into this thread. I have been working on a practice dio with cork cobblestones, and I have just finished the major painting of the cobblestones, with a variety of colors.
I will be doing a bunch of repair work to the cobblestones, and touch-up the painting the best I can. I then plan to spray the street with Tamiya Dullcote clear spray lacquer.
I want to use acrylics thinned down with water to cut down on the raw new look of the cobblestones, painting them over the Dullcote. Problem is, I am not sure how to do this and what colors to use to end up with a street that looks like it has been around a long time.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I use brushes, and have no spray guns, so am limited in that fashion.
Thanks for any help I can get here.
Being that I am a novice at best I can't offer too much. I will say this though, make some smaller test beds of the cobblestones you are doing if possible to try out various techniques. I bought a very cheap model and slapped it together to try out any new paint schemes or weathering techniques I am uncomfortable with beforehand. It's been the best thing I have done to improve my skills. Combined with all the info you can gather here at Armorama, I have quickly been able to get some pretty satisfying results.
fificat
Joined: January 10, 2011
KitMaker: 135 posts
Armorama: 109 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 - 10:37 PM UTC
Well, after I painted the cobblestones, and touched them up with a toothpick, I sprayed them with Tamiya Dullcote.
Then on part of the cobblestones, I applied Vallejo black thinned with water. Looked good, so I went all over the dio, and let dry a bit and blotted with paper towels.
Let it dry, and then did it a second time. Really worked good to dim down the brighter colors put on at first.
I will now use the cork cobblestones and this technique on a larger dio I am also working on.
Wish I could upload photos, but I got a window that says I can't.
Then on part of the cobblestones, I applied Vallejo black thinned with water. Looked good, so I went all over the dio, and let dry a bit and blotted with paper towels.
Let it dry, and then did it a second time. Really worked good to dim down the brighter colors put on at first.
I will now use the cork cobblestones and this technique on a larger dio I am also working on.
Wish I could upload photos, but I got a window that says I can't.
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 02, 2015 - 12:52 PM UTC
From my experience, they are completely safe over acrylic paint (vallejo, mig, ammo, tamiya...) and there is no need to seal.
I prefer my own filters with oils and thinner, however I have found that the washes are very useful because not only they have the correct dilution (filters are much lighter) but also the colours have been chosen according to the base.
You can use them directly from the bottle, just remember to remove the excess with a clean brush and some thinner before it dries.
As for the smell, yes, they smell, but not to the point of being annoying -at least for me.
I prefer my own filters with oils and thinner, however I have found that the washes are very useful because not only they have the correct dilution (filters are much lighter) but also the colours have been chosen according to the base.
You can use them directly from the bottle, just remember to remove the excess with a clean brush and some thinner before it dries.
As for the smell, yes, they smell, but not to the point of being annoying -at least for me.
spongya
Associate Editor
Joined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 12:28 AM UTC
I've just bought some true earth acrylic filters; I'll be interested to see how they work. (So far I've never used commercial washes; will buy an AK or two when I get the chance.) The effect on the JgdTiger is amazing.
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