I have a general question about the difference between white primer and say-- white paint...basically is there any differnce? Every time I'm at a hobby store I think to myself "is there a diff?" I have noticed that a white primer I used had more of a grainy feeling and look to it. Is the "bite" that everybody talks about? Is this supposed to be sanded smooth with a high grit sandpaper? Let me know what you guys think...

Sean

yes the primer is formulated to have other paint BITE into it. this is the difference you feel when you touch it as well

On top of what MrRoo said primer usually is able to fill tiny scratches and surface imperfections...
Ciao

Howdy SonOfAVet,

Good question. And one I have some feeling about. The answer's already posted are indeed correct. And, answer the question. But, if I may be allowed to expand?
I have read many times on the Forums right here on Armorama about people using "any old inexpensive primer", some have even mentioned automotive primers as the tool of choice. IMHO, I do not understand this at all. To begin with, automotive primers for example (even the 'inexpensive' ones)contain larger particulate material blended in the primer itself to aid in filling small scratches or imperfections on something the size of an automobile. If you think you can feel the slight "graininess" in a can of say Testors primer, feel the diiference betwen that, and the "graininess" in a freshly primed fender at an autobody shop! Believe me, there's a difference.
Additionally, and most importantly, regarding our models and painting them is the detail available in the mouldings or castings. Think about it, every layer of 'whatever' reduces that detail and begins to fill the micro nooks and crannies of the sculpted lines. Funny thing about this is that some people who claim to be accomplished fgure painters for example miss this minute, but important point.
Depending upon the subject matter your building, the amount of priming needed, is variable. Most normally I will spot prime an area I have worked on for example and sand it down revealing either sanding scratches or file marks from, the first atempt at the join which are now filled with the primer. Now is re-primering needed? Not necessarily.
This whole thing is one of the reasons I have switched over to using Mr. Surfacer. This product comes in several grades, #500 & #1000 being the most widely used. (do you see any reference back to the "inexpensive automotive primer and it's 'graininess' now).

My apologies for getting long-winded with my reply, but when so many people talk about perfecting their 'painting' skills, and spend hours talking about weathering and washes and pastels and pigments and gloss coats and dull coats and....well, you get the idea. yet choose to turn a blind eye to the very first coating they put on their models....well.

I guess it's a fortunate thing that most paints (especially enamels) are somewhat self leveling.
(hope my ramble didn't bore you)

Tread.

A suggestion.(yep, I can't resist) Next time you paint something (like a fig), and after you've done all your sanding or whatever. Just shoot some Mr. Surfacer #1000 on it instead of some inexpensive primer. Now when I say "shoot", I mean just a light dusting, till you can juuuuuuust tell theres a coating on it........then paint.
They'll be a difference.

Hi Threadhead
I'm a beginner but can you help enlighten me ...
a.) is there a need to prime all models before painting, i.e. big or small or even figures ?
b.) when you say 'shoot' surfacer 1000 or 500, what do you mean ? air-brushing or brush-paining ?
c.) is using surfacer 500 / 1000 as good as using putty ?

Please advise.

Cheers - Benny

I used to be a house builder and we had a saying that if the foundations were perfect the rest of the job just flowed on.

the same could be said about painting as the first coat is the foundation of the whole job!

I too would like to know about this Mr. Surfacer #1000 please

TreadHead, Don't worry, I'm a history major, its impossible to bore me Thanks for the detailed response and a follow up question to your post. You said to have a light "dusting" of primer. Should this be a very thin layer that covers the whole model? or should I be able to see a little bit of bare plastic?(kind of like a speckled look?) Here is my example to clarify:

I am just about finished with a JU-87, my first real attempt at a model after a 8-9 year absense from the hobby. For the first time I used a primer on the model(before i was poor and young). I used testors white primer from a spray can. I sprayed the model with a few coats until it was pretty much all white. I noticed the grainy feeling and how it kind of soaked up paint that I airbrushed on. I just was/am not sure if primer should be sanded lightly, or will all the coats of paint "smooth" out the look?

BTW-- I should have pics of the JU-87 soon, just sprayed a gloss coat on last night and its in isolation drying before decals are applied.

Sean

Howdy Fellas,

Just got in from work, and checked the thread.
My Farthing's worth.

to Bennyl:
a) The need to 'prime' models, or anything else for that matter is based upon several factors. But for economy of space, and assumption of your intended question, let's say it's a plastic model.
When a plastic (styrene) model comes out of the moulding process it is generally smooth. under normal magnification it almost looks glossy. Hence, the need for a 'base' medium. In most people's minds that means a form of 'primer'. And in the most basic sense, that is true. However, all a 'prime' coat does is (as has been already mentioned) create a 'base' coat of something that ALL of your other layers are depending on for adhesion to the model kit itself! That means your Base coat, your Colour coat, your Filter coat, your Gloss coat, your Wash coat, your Dull coat, your........you get the idea. As our wonderful member Mr. Roo just mentioned very accurately, and I will (hopefully with his permission) paraphrase his reply by saying that ALL things are dependent upon a solid foundation. Model painting is no exception to that GOOD rule. His past experience as a 'home builder' has served him well!
If you do any work at all on your plastic model kit, meaning sanding or filing or similar, you have already created a 'base' that the additional paint layers can adhere to. Even with something like 1000 grit sandpaper you leave microscopic cross-hatched 'grooves' that the paint can grab ahold of.
So, depending upon your medium, and the product being worked on, directly affects the 'need' for priming.
b) Mr. Surfacer comes in what is commonly referred to as 'rattle cans', you know, standard spray cans with the 'BB's inside. So, to answer your question. Neither AB, or hand brush. Just use the 'rattle' can.
c) Two different applications, but again, assuming your original question intent, Better! Mr. Surfacer is a finely strained version of both primer and, for lack of a better term, putty. Hence the needed clean-up with turp. Anyway, Mr. Surfacer accomplishes both tasks simultaneously. And does a very good job of as well.
hth.

BTW, try using 'gap-filling' CA glue instead of putty for your larger seams/gaps.

Tread.

Howdy Roo,

You are such an accomplished modeler, I always hesitate a moment when you ask me a question.......you aren't leading me on are you? If you are, I feel obligated to tell you I'm two-leftfooted!
Anyway, in an honest attempt at trying to help.

As I have already said, your observations regarding 'foundations' are spot-on! And if you read my response in the post above, you will find most of my base opinions on the subject.
But regarding Mr. Surfacer #1000 specifically. It essentially is a cross between a primer and a'putty'. Finely strained so that there is a measureable consistency of both for application purposes.
If you've ever heard of using old fashioned toothpaste to abrade down motorcycle helmet visors that have been lightly scratched by normal wear & tear.....same thing, kinda.
Basically, it accomplishes both the task of light 'puttying' and primering. Give it a try, it works very well.

Regards,

Tread.

LOL.......howdy SonOfAVet, I've been a "history major" all of my life, so you and I are of the same clothe.

My apologies, I'm a bit confused. You say your 87 is already done? But you have another in white prime? If I may ask, which/what kind of model is it?

Tread.

Tread that was not an attempt to lead you on . Here in Australia I have never heard of that product and honestly did not know what it was. Your explanation has answered my Question and now I will try and find a supply of it here in OZ to try.

Thanks for that
ROO
PS> thanks also for the comment on my modeling skills :-)

Hi Treadhead
Thanks for your explanation ... it make me understand better why primer is used or needed or at all.
I was told @ the hobby shop that primer to be used on larger areas, e.g. armor model while figures need no primer.

cheers - Benny

Allow me clarify TreadHead,
The Ju-87 that is nearly complete is the one i used the white primer on...
I know this question may seem a little after the fact, but since this model is almost complete, that means its time to start a new one--hence the question about primer. The model is a Revell 1/72 Ju 87 g-2 Tank Buster, it is an older kit had has been sitting on my shelf for close to a decade. Hmmm i hope i just didn't build an exspensive collectors kit Says 1975 on the box

Sean

there is a difference, sometimes a big difference between the most exspensive and the cheapest, but this is a hobby to have fun, and if the people have fun and are proud of their work that is great, I even read back where this one guy was calling another stupid cause he couldn't afford to go and buy nothing but the best like he uses. The hard truth is a lot of us can not afford to go buy the best there is on the market, and not all of us are going to sell our work, we got it to look at ourselves, and the ones that buy all the best, us poor are having just as much fun making ours ourself. We don't haft to stop modeling cause one person says to use what he uses, what ever it is that makes you happy fine, and everybody here is just trying to help by the sometimes cheapest way we know, and sometimes somebody might forget part of the recipe for doing something the way it is supposed to be, but that doesn't make them stupid. Try to remember this is for fun and don't resort to name calling cause it isn't your way

Howdy fellas,

Just checking back on this thread.

to Roo: no worries mate! What I said was meant in the best way. Now I understand your reason for inquiry. Believe me Sir, you can ask me a question anytime you wish. From looking at the results of your modeling skills, I take it as a compliment that you ask me at all.
Anytime I can be of assistance, just let me know!
Oh, BTW, if you can't find this stuff locally, just give me the word and I'll box up a bottle or two and post it to you!

to Benny: Glad to be of any help! But hold on. What you said about the hobby shop's input is not correct. If you want me to 'blab' more on the subject just let me know. Hopefully I've covered most of it for you.

to SonOfAVet: I understand. Now it adds up. O.K., I don't think you have to worry about the kit. It's probably fine. Good luck on your next one!

to straightedge: I'm not sure if your post is directed to me or not, but I will do my best to address the 'meat' of your point.
Essentially what I am hearing in your post is that not everyone can afford the very best and most expensive supplies out there to accomplish their modeling endeavors...........correct?
If, that is in fact, the point you are trying to make, I agree with you!
Please understand me, I am the Patriarch of a family of six (6) on one (1) income primarily. So I understand the true value of the investment in something called a 'Hobby'. My interest and desire when studying and listening to other more experineced modeler's than I, is to do my very best at simply trying to ferret through all of the 'fodder' and trying primarily to find ONE simple thing........the item that works BEST! No more complicated than that. To me, I don't care if it's the seventh tail feather of a rare Guadalaharen Prairie Hen, or a 5 cent bleached chicken feater from HongKong!!!!
It all breaks down to.....what works the best!
And, just for the record straightedge, it's usually the 'cheap' option that works the best in the end.
A point to remember straightedge, is the investment of TIME! This is the 'common denominator' for a lot of people.

Your point is well taken. I look forward to seeing some of your work.

Tread.