So do I understand correctly that the Academy M47 kit is effectively the Italeri but reboxed and with some M48 upgrades for the IR/White light?
And while we're on the topic of Pattons, M46? Ultimately how different was that really to the M26? Do I understand it was mainly a powertrain upgrade? What about visual differences? Is Dragon the only option?
Hosted by Darren Baker
M47 Patton, 1/35
woodstock74
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 05:57 AM UTC
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 08:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So do I understand correctly that the Academy M47 kit is effectively the Italeri but reboxed and with some M48 upgrades for the IR/White light?
And while we're on the topic of Pattons, M46? Ultimately how different was that really to the M26? Do I understand it was mainly a powertrain upgrade? What about visual differences? Is Dragon the only option?
The external difference between the M26 and M46 was considerable. The M46 program was a rebuild of the existing M26 fleet (there were no new-build M46 tanks). The M46 featured a new power train, the Continental AVL-1790 engine and the new CD-850 cross drive transmission, which replaced the anemic Ford GAA engine originally designed for the Sherman tank.
The new engine was air-cooled, and required an extravagant array of ventilation grills on the revised engine deck, and new twin exhaust mufflers on the rear fenders. These ran red-hot, so metal shrouds were fitted to cover the mufflers.
The gun was also revised with a bore evacuator, and the outer chamber of the muzzle brake was machined off, leaving a single-baffle blast defector. The turret casting originally had mounts for a crane on the side, which were machined off as well.
The program was hardly begin when war broke out in Korea, so many unmodified M26 Pershings went straight into battle.
There was also an interim version, which featured the improved gun, but not the engine pack. These were designated M26A1, and also served in Korea. During the M46 conversion program, the tanks started to receive the electrical system of the new M47 tank. These were designated M46A1. They were externally identical, distinguishable only by serial number.
As far as I know, only Dragon has offered an M46 in 1/35th scale, back in the 1990's. It does offer an optional searchlight for the mantlet, a feature seen late in the Korean War. Tamiya and Hobby Boss have offered M26 kits, which may be a source of better detail parts--Hobby Boss also offers an M26A1. Some reviewers have found fault with the shape of Dragon's turret shell.
The 1/32nd scale Lindberg M46 was designed in the 1960's as a motorized toy, and is not worth bothering with.
I have no information on an Academy M47 kit.
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 08:29 PM UTC
Hi Mike,
Gerald's got you sorted with info on M46 & M26.
Academy's M47 is indeed the old Italeri kit with new parts for the searchlight, but that's not a bad thing! The M47 was/is one of Italeri's best efforts, with good details and excellent fit that was decades ahead of its time when it came out in the late '70s. I built it then, and several times since, and am still amazed by details like the separate toolbox handles and the field phone inside its box.
Where its age is showing there are simple fixes. The over-stiff track can be replaced with an AFV Club indy-link set, and the TC's .50cal is best binned in favour of a nice Tasca/Asuka MG. The suspension suffers from too much realism - the thin idler arms used to bend or break under the strain of the infamously-stiff vinyl track. Other than that, the big issues are no cast texture and no casting numbers - these were fairly prominent on M47s but Archer Transfers come to the rescue! I'm sure some PE details can be had too...
Oh, and beware the usual "Sammy Sink-hole" effect that is a risk on ANY Italeri kit. They tend to pull sprues from the mould too fast, any chunky parts develop sink-holes as the plastic shrinks while cooling. After four decades you'd have thought they would learn the lesson. IIRC on the M47 it wasn't too bad - my most recent build has no noteworthy sink-holes on it. (I like to buy Italeri kits "in person" so I can check the contents first.)
Gerald's got you sorted with info on M46 & M26.
Academy's M47 is indeed the old Italeri kit with new parts for the searchlight, but that's not a bad thing! The M47 was/is one of Italeri's best efforts, with good details and excellent fit that was decades ahead of its time when it came out in the late '70s. I built it then, and several times since, and am still amazed by details like the separate toolbox handles and the field phone inside its box.
Where its age is showing there are simple fixes. The over-stiff track can be replaced with an AFV Club indy-link set, and the TC's .50cal is best binned in favour of a nice Tasca/Asuka MG. The suspension suffers from too much realism - the thin idler arms used to bend or break under the strain of the infamously-stiff vinyl track. Other than that, the big issues are no cast texture and no casting numbers - these were fairly prominent on M47s but Archer Transfers come to the rescue! I'm sure some PE details can be had too...
Oh, and beware the usual "Sammy Sink-hole" effect that is a risk on ANY Italeri kit. They tend to pull sprues from the mould too fast, any chunky parts develop sink-holes as the plastic shrinks while cooling. After four decades you'd have thought they would learn the lesson. IIRC on the M47 it wasn't too bad - my most recent build has no noteworthy sink-holes on it. (I like to buy Italeri kits "in person" so I can check the contents first.)
woodstock74
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
Armorama: 692 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 09:10 PM UTC
Excellent info guys, thanks! I've read very positive things about the Italeri M47, despite its age.
Also thanks for the clarifications regarding the M46. What's Dragon's kit like?
Also thanks for the clarifications regarding the M46. What's Dragon's kit like?
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 19, 2015 - 01:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Excellent info guys, thanks! I've read very positive things about the Italeri M47, despite its age.
Also thanks for the clarifications regarding the M46. What's Dragon's kit like?
it's a good 1990's kit, not Tamiya quality, but pretty good. I got it at the same time as the T26E3 (M26), and built that--the M46 remains in the stash. Dragon did two front ends, one with the smaller bulge for the 500 cfm ventilator housing bulge, and one with the later 1000 cfm ventilator housing (the M46 kit has that one). The M46 engine deck doors are separate parts, so you could swap in Italeri's M47 engine and transmission module for a maintenance scene. The stowage box locking handles are molded as separate parts, as with Italeri's M47 (curiously, all M48 kits to date just depict them as solid blobs).
Dragon has reissued the kit as an Orange Box Cyber Hobby offering, with excellent DS soft plastic track replacing the clunky indie link track they included twenty years ago. If you really want the look of indie links, the AFV Club tracks will work. The canvas mantlet seal was pretty universal in Korea, so you'll need to sculpt that from epoxy putty (unless you prefer the tissue paper and white glue approach).
Here's a link to a build article here on Armorama:
http://armorama.com/forums/225450&page=1
woodstock74
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
Armorama: 692 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 19, 2015 - 02:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextExcellent info guys, thanks! I've read very positive things about the Italeri M47, despite its age.
Also thanks for the clarifications regarding the M46. What's Dragon's kit like?
it's a good 1990's kit, not Tamiya quality, but pretty good. I got it at the same time as the T26E3 (M26), and built that--the M46 remains in the stash. Dragon did two front ends, one with the smaller bulge for the 500 cfm ventilator housing bulge, and one with the later 1000 cfm ventilator housing (the M46 kit has that one). The M46 engine deck doors are separate parts, so you could swap in Italeri's M47 engine and transmission module for a maintenance scene. The stowage box locking handles are molded as separate parts, as with Italeri's M47 (curiously, all M48 kits to date just depict them as solid blobs).
Dragon has reissued the kit as an Orange Box Cyber Hobby offering, with excellent DS soft plastic track replacing the clunky indie link track they included twenty years ago. If you really want the look of indie links, the AFV Club tracks will work. The canvas mantlet seal was pretty universal in Korea, so you'll need to sculpt that from epoxy putty (unless you prefer the tissue paper and white glue approach).
Here's a link to a build article here on Armorama:
http://armorama.com/forums/225450&page=1
Been doing some research and it doesn't look like a bad kit, but no one does an after market canvas mantlet?
TheGreatPumpkin
Vendor
Joined: April 20, 2009
KitMaker: 690 posts
Armorama: 672 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 19, 2015 - 03:08 AM UTC
Mike,
The bad news is that there is no purpose-built mantlet cover available for the M46. The good news is that an M26 mantlet with cover will work pretty well (it's what I used on my M46), with minimal carving of the turret opening. A couple of resin parts were offered and can be found on E-bay and elsewhere (watch the bargain bins at shows). HTH.
Regards,
Georg
The bad news is that there is no purpose-built mantlet cover available for the M46. The good news is that an M26 mantlet with cover will work pretty well (it's what I used on my M46), with minimal carving of the turret opening. A couple of resin parts were offered and can be found on E-bay and elsewhere (watch the bargain bins at shows). HTH.
Regards,
Georg
woodstock74
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
Armorama: 692 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 19, 2015 - 04:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Mike,
The bad news is that there is no purpose-built mantlet cover available for the M46. The good news is that an M26 mantlet with cover will work pretty well (it's what I used on my M46), with minimal carving of the turret opening. A couple of resin parts were offered and can be found on E-bay and elsewhere (watch the bargain bins at shows). HTH.
Regards,
Georg
Yes, very helpful. I immediately see TWS has one and at a good price...
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 19, 2015 - 07:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The bad news is that there is no purpose-built mantlet cover available for the M46. The good news is that an M26 mantlet with cover will work pretty well with minimal carving of the turret opening.
It should fit perfectly as the M46 and M26 used exactly the same turret, gun shield, and gun tube. In addition to the partial cover used on the M26 the M46 also used a full cover similar in design to that used on the M47. That one you'll have to make yourself.
KL
TheGreatPumpkin
Vendor
Joined: April 20, 2009
KitMaker: 690 posts
Armorama: 672 posts
Posted: Monday, July 20, 2015 - 12:12 AM UTC
Kurt,
Yes, in the real world the turrets were the same, but in the scale world things are slightly different. Having done this conversion myself, it does require some some carving due to the vaguarities of kit casting.
Regards,
Georg
Yes, in the real world the turrets were the same, but in the scale world things are slightly different. Having done this conversion myself, it does require some some carving due to the vaguarities of kit casting.
Regards,
Georg
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Monday, July 20, 2015 - 07:39 AM UTC
I'd say that's a problem with the resin part as DML uses the same turret sprue for both tanks!
KL
KL
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